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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you pay an on-line shopping tax to save local retail shopping?

99 replies

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 08/01/2021 17:23

In Germany they are bringing in an online tax to bail out retail shopping.

www.dw.com/en/german-mps-propose-online-shopping-tax-to-save-city-centers/a-56001395

As a retailer I have felt unfairly disadvantaged to online sellers who pay no business rates which the Government collects from shops; online selling fees go abroad to multinational corporations whereas our shop rents are paid to mainly local UK business owners.
Would people be willing to pay a bit more online to save high street shopping from disappearing & have much of it converted into housing?
The amount collected by the Gov in business rates is billions and there will be a huge drop in their tax income if high street retailers disappear.

YABU - Would not support a tax

YANBU- Would support a tax

OP posts:
SchrodingersImmigrant · 08/01/2021 19:01

Is that 25 billion collected or what it should be? 😱Lots ogf shops are extempts

InTheLongGrass · 08/01/2021 19:02

Our local high street was decimated before covid.
Even 20 years ago when I moved here it was a string of discount shops, charity shops and the odd bank.
If there were shops i wanted there, I would go. As it is, the only decent thing about the high street is the bookshop - which I do use. Should I be penalised for buying online when there isnt a viable alternative?

Invisimamma · 08/01/2021 19:05

No there's nothing on the high street I'd want to save. It's dire and they never have stock or sizes, almost always a wasted trip. Much prefer online.

Pugdoglife · 08/01/2021 19:07

I have three young children, so when I go shopping I'm limited to how much I can carry. Often I see things I want I get home and order it online. If there was a tax involved I'd be more willing to buy it in the shop and save myself some money.

sst1234 · 08/01/2021 19:07

The reason is bricks and mortar retail is suffering is because of crap availability, poor opening hours and computer says no attitude, especially independent shops.
Aside from that, there are already delivery charges which are built into price. It’s stupid to try and save a poor business model through penalizing something that’s more popular.

TwoZeroTwoZero · 08/01/2021 19:09

Yes. Although I do shop online I do like the social aspect of going shopping and hanging about town, going for a nice sandwich and a cup of tea where I don't have to wash the pots, being able to see and feel the things I'm thinking of buying and, if it's an item of clothing or some shoes, being able to actually try things on before buying them.

Some things I've found are really difficult to buy online: I'm a novice at sewing and don't really understand what a lot of the fabrics are called or what they're for so I find it much easier to go into a dedicated shop, ask the person who works there for advice, touch and feel the fabric and have a better idea of what I might be able to do with it.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 08/01/2021 19:09

Governments and councils are always bemoaning the fate of the poor high street shops, when by a country mile, the biggest culprits for trying to force them out of business are the government and councils themselves.

If they provided ample free parking, good, clean public toilets and didn't levy extortionate business rates, there would be fewer empty shop premises, more sales and government would probably actually take in more than they currently do overall.

Their idea of levelling the playing field is always by proposing levying extra tax to make things harder for one group rather than reducing tax to remove obstacles for the other group. It's the same principle as when they always tell you how many more hospitals and schools your extra taxes can pay for and never a word about how many more layers of pointless bureaucracy or willy-waving nuclear weapons.

That said, I agree with PPs that we need to adapt with the times and accept that the day of some kinds of businesses on the high street is now over. We don't mourn the loss of photo processing shops (although some have diversified and adapted to digital-related services); we accept that Blockbuster is history; we need to realise that, whilst cafes and hairdressers can still thrive, most people vastly prefer buying books, electronics and thousands of other standard non-urgent, non-trying-on items online.

Banks have been roundly criticised for closing branches and reducing opening times, but what percentage of transactions cannot now be done online or with just a cash machine? We have to accept that you can't always just keep the old one indefinitely when you move to something new.

randomsabreuse · 08/01/2021 19:15

Nope. I don't shop in person because I seem to be unable to find what I want in store and big chains have notices about their full range being on line (so why am I bothering with your shop then...)

Mostly I buy food, and Lego.

Avondklok · 08/01/2021 19:38

I think everything needs to evolve. We need housing more than lots of shops these days. The cities centres could be revitalised. More community hub type places, groceries, essential services, cafes etc.

womaninatightspot · 08/01/2021 19:46

Gave up with high street shopping way before the pandemic. Fifty mile round trip, pay for parking, then traipse around to discover they don't have it in my size or in the kids sizes, go home and buy online. Now I skip straight to buying online. I do buy from local butcher/ gifts at eco shop that supports a corbenic community.

MrsMomoa · 08/01/2021 19:53

Why should people be penalised for shopping online?
Shops need to move with the times.

SalaciousCrumble · 08/01/2021 19:54

I think High St shopping is sadly dying out and I can't find myself caring much. I live in a very touristy town and it's full of gift shops...during the pandemic they have all been posting on social media asking locals to support them and warning they won't be around if we don't spend our money with them. Frankly there's only so many novelty tea towels or smelly candles I can buy, and I'd be perfectly happy if all 10 of them consolidated into one selling a few cards and kids' presents.

I maybe go to the High St in my local city twice a year, but haven't been at all since covid and haven't missed it. To be honest some of that retail space would be more efficiently used for housing, maybe it would prevent them sticking 5 bed 'executive homes' all over the green belt.

I'd be happy to pay a tax on non-essential online purchases to pay for school meals or the NHS, not to prop up a failing and inefficient sector which isn't really essential to most people.

Kazzyhoward · 08/01/2021 19:57

A much better option would be parity re business rates. At the moment, the rateable value (on which rates are charged) is a lot higher per square metre for a "physical shop" than for a warehouse. So, a supermarket will pay a lot more than a warehouse of exactly the same size. A smaller shop will pay a lot more in business rates than an e-tailer with a small lock-up of the same size. It's clearly time to deal with that anomaly to have parity, or even have cheaper business rates for physical shops than warehouses.

Milkshake7489 · 08/01/2021 19:59

I'm sorry OP but I would love to see more of the highstreet turned into accommodation.

As much as I like a wonder around town (pre-covid), there's more choice and better deals online.

Plus we have a housing shortage. If those tired, rundown buildings can be put to good use, we won't have to sacrifice as much green land for housing (and hopefully cafés, restaurants, and community spaces can survive better with customers literally on their doorsteps).

I honestly don't understand why any shop would choose not to operate at least partially online now anyway... covid might be speeding things up, but the highstreet has been dying my entire life.

Kazzyhoward · 08/01/2021 20:00

@Avondklok

I think everything needs to evolve. We need housing more than lots of shops these days. The cities centres could be revitalised. More community hub type places, groceries, essential services, cafes etc.
Most of the buildings in town centres currently used as shops used to be housing anyway. Even those that were built as shops would often have a "flat" above for the shop owner and their family. The dominance of retail in town centres is a relatively modern thing from the 80s and 90s. I think most town centres would benefit from the "shopping" area being scaled back to a much smaller area and the surrounding streets converted/rebuilt into housing.
C8H10N4O2 · 08/01/2021 20:00

People were bemoaning the loss of the high street before the world wide web existed. Then it was evil out of town shopping centres who were killing the high street, now its evil online shops.

I jumped at telephone supermarket ordering when it started and online when it became more common in the latter 90s. It had nothing to do with price and everything to do with customer service, range and convenience. Pretty much the same reasons people went to "American style" shopping malls in the 80s.

The shops which have thrived in our high street are the independents offering good customer service, knowledgeable staff and a specialism. Those which struggle have either no point of differentiation or they are parts of chains all of which are identikit both in range an indifferent service. The high street has always had to evolve to survive, this isn't new.

Incidentally as someone who is pretty much a 100% online shopper, the bulk of that shopping is with independents or wtih the online arm of retail chains. Should I pay an extra 10% retail tax to buy from Tesco?

GingerNorthernLass · 08/01/2021 20:19

With lots of people losing their jobs I can imagine this is going to be really popular (NOT!).

We're going to be paying for this pandemic for decades. Please don't add to the suffering. High Street and online retail businesses are there to make money. While they were raking it in a few years back they weren't handing back their profits to the general public, were they?

Godimabitch · 08/01/2021 20:24

I already do, I pay the delivery. I don't factor in price when buying online or in shops.
I buy mostly online because I can read reviews, the only time I go in shops is when something might not fit.

BlueGreenDreams · 08/01/2021 20:30

Do what with such a tax?

Invest in high Street infrastructure.?

Give tax breaks to small independent shops?

Gift you a nice fat cheque once a month/year?

If I buy from Amazon, I am supposed to pay toward your business for the privilege, even if you don't sell anything I need nor want?

Are you the BBC?

GlitterandBalloons · 08/01/2021 20:34

Probably not as the added delivery costs already increase the price for me and I am not a big earner.

HisNibs · 08/01/2021 20:49

Sorry OP it's a no from me. What I'd rather see are rules put in place to stop companies offshoring their revenues. If it's bought within the UK, any taxes should remain in the UK.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 08/01/2021 23:16

If I buy from Amazon, I am supposed to pay toward your business for the privilege, even if you don't sell anything I need nor want?

If business rates were implemented today rather than pre-internet they would have included on-line businesses, whereas bricks and morter businesses carry the whole tax burden and so retail shoppers are baring the end cost burden of the extra discount for you-is this fair?
It is just giving retailers and customers a level playing field.
If tax revenue drops below a certain level, it's inevitable that taxes will creep in online at some point, but it might well be too late for many retail businesses, but don't worry the Conservatives are a shit show and only likely to do this much too late to make any difference!

OP posts:
delilahbucket · 08/01/2021 23:30

I'm an online retailer. My rent goes to a local business man, my vat and tax go to our government, I pay wages for two staff, also local, and I source 95% of my stock from UK businesses. This is the digital age and unfortunately the high street is dying. Adapt or call it quits.

RaininSummer · 08/01/2021 23:31

To be honest, I haven't been a high street shopper for a good few years. I also think that we need the housing so would have a problem really with the majority of shops being converted. I am poor so can't pay extra anything given the choice.

Slightlyunhinged · 09/01/2021 01:09

I think it depends on the size of the business. There are lots of small businesses out there who operate online, myself included.

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