We all work when we’re on annual leave (evenings and weekends), don’t we?

[Changedforthisyear]

This new WFH/ managing childcare life has blurred the lines between work and home. I do the school runs during my work time, so then I make that time up later on. My work hours are all over the place. I’m on annual leave today with nothing to do/ nowhere to go and so I’m catching up on work. Are we all doing this?

YANBU we’re all working when we’re on annual leave, evenings and weekends.

YABU most people are sticking rigidly to their usual core hours.

Yes but I also did it precovid when not working from home.
I get calls and texts at 630/7am, my normal hours are till 530 but often in the office until 7 with no overtime but I get good gifts, have flexibility when I need it with my home or mum who is housebound do it’s give and take
After half the team bring on furlough until December ive realised I do get burnt out so this year while wfh I’m trying to log off by 6pm latest

I've always worked flexibly and from home - I'm in academia and it's normal/one of the perks.

I don't think it's helpful for people to start saying we shouldn't aspire to this or we should try only to work core hours. Given we live in an imperfect world, that only discriminates against people with caring responsibilities, because you get wanky workplace tips like 'don't send email outside core hours'.

I also think, for me, working loosely across seven days, evenings and daytime, is much better than working in a tight focussed way 9-5. If I'm teaching I can teach all day, but at the end I'm shattered. I cannot do research 9-5. It's just not sensible - you need breaks to stop and think. But I can absolutely do a couple of hours, go weed the garden, have a walk, do a couple more, go cook lunch slowly, do another hour, etc. etc.

Hello no. Every minute you spend working for free you are devaluing yourself AND your colleagues

I make sure I have down time, but I would check my emails on a day off or sometimes before I go to bed to get a head for the morning.

However more often than not I will try and finish by 5:30
I do break for exercise and maybe one or 2 evenings a week work a bit later.

No, never on annual leave. I am part time and will work on my non working days or evenings/weekends when necessary (as infrequently as possible) but annual leave is sacred.

@ColouringPencils - you're absolutely right, work over your hours and it becomes expected rather than appreciated.

I don't work on a Friday and last year I dialled into a few meetings on Friday when it was important to do so, then I seemed to get into the habit of logging in to check how things were going. At first people thanked me for logging on and I didn't mind doing it because it was for genuinely important things, but then they started scheduling meetings on a Friday and expecting me to go.

Huge sympathy for those on the covid front line working ridiculous hours to keep us safe. It is humbling, but at the same time it's also important that nobody who can help it burns out and I hope the demands on people are not more than they can cope with.

When I worked yes

@Regularsizedrudy

Hello no. Every minute you spend working for free you are devaluing yourself AND your colleagues

That only really applies if you are paid by the hour, I think? If you're paid by the hour, your employer's responsibility is to make sure you have work all the hours you're meant to be working - if you spend three hours on Tuesday lazing around with nothing to do, that's their silly fault.

I know it can be complicated - obviously, if you're not paid by the hour but everyone doing your job is working ridiculously hard, they do devalue the work. But spreading the job out over more time? Not sure that's a problem.

Yes to evenings and weekends. Not loads mostly, just catching up with emails.

I try very hard not to work on annual leave . Occasionally I may have to finish a court report with an inflexible deadline, but otherwise try hard to unplug properly.

I read somewhere that the problem with working from home is that it can start to feel like you live at the office, and I'm definitely teetering around that mindset at the moment, so need to switch off more.

I'm working a LOT more than my contracted hours - but I'm in the kind of role where it's absolutely necessary and I'm senior enough that there isn't an equivalent person to pick up anything I miss.

I'm also a single parent so have to support some home schooling, so there are always work tasks that need to be completed afterwards.

However, I am strongly encouraging everyone to have clear boundaries for working and non-working time, and not to check messages etc once they are officially "off" because I don't want them to burn out.

I don't think it's helpful for people to start saying we shouldn't aspire to this or we should try only to work core hours

We absolutely shouldn't aspire to people working during their paid time off, or days off, or weekends. If people want to do that, fine, but don't pressure other people into doing the same.

I also think, for me, working loosely across seven days, evenings and daytime, is much better than working in a tight focussed way 9-5.

Again, if it works for you, great, but unfortunately the more people who work long hours like this, the more it's seen as "the norm" and the more people are pressured because they want their time off to be just that.

@vanillandhoney

I don't think it's helpful for people to start saying we shouldn't aspire to this or we should try only to work core hours

We absolutely shouldn't aspire to people working during their paid time off, or days off, or weekends. If people want to do that, fine, but don't pressure other people into doing the same.

I also think, for me, working loosely across seven days, evenings and daytime, is much better than working in a tight focussed way 9-5.

Again, if it works for you, great, but unfortunately the more people who work long hours like this, the more it's seen as "the norm" and the more people are pressured because they want their time off to be just that.

Depends on the profession. With certain professions, it is the norm, and it is required (but you're paid accordingly to compensate).

People absolutely should have their eyes wide open when they pick a career though, rather than this coming as a shock part way through training.

@vanillandhoney

I don't think it's helpful for people to start saying we shouldn't aspire to this or we should try only to work core hours

We absolutely shouldn't aspire to people working during their paid time off, or days off, or weekends. If people want to do that, fine, but don't pressure other people into doing the same.

I also think, for me, working loosely across seven days, evenings and daytime, is much better than working in a tight focussed way 9-5.

Again, if it works for you, great, but unfortunately the more people who work long hours like this, the more it's seen as "the norm" and the more people are pressured because they want their time off to be just that.

We absolutely shouldn't aspire to people working during their paid time off, or days off, or weekends.

Why not, though?

It can be a healthier work pattern to work weekends. If it doesn't work for you, fine. And I agree, no one should be pressured into it. But equally, it shouldn't be stigmatised.

I work funny hours at the moment and will often work evenings (in addition to a reasonably full day), because I don't have much else to do in the evenings.

But if I'm on annual leave the very maximum I will do is to scan my emails for anything urgent. And if I had to respond to something urgently I would consider myself no longer on annual leave and I'd make up the leave later.

I work part time so have an agreed number of hours pw. We are a small team so I spread them across the week (my choice).

If I think it is necessary I will do extra time checking and replying to emails, but often a 5 minute check and a five minute response are all that is needed.

Working extra time is something my employer generally frowns on though.

And YY, definitely agree with @waydownwego that there should be more transparency and awareness of what kinds of work pattern fit with which jobs.

I think that cuts both ways, though - there are an awful lot of workplaces that superficially support flex working, but you try and actually get flexible hours once you've started, and no chance.

But spreading the job out over more time? Not sure that's a problem.

It's not a problem if someone is happy to work longer hours, but it shouldn't be expected or actively encouraged.

Having time "off" from work is so important, and you just don't have that if you're constantly expected to answer e-mails or check your messages.

Long (unpaid) hours are not something that should be defended imo.

Flexible working on the days you are suppose to is fine- starting late/finishing late etc but never on Annual Leave.

This. I'll work later than usual during busy periods and finish earlier when it's quieter but never log on during weekends or annual leave. I can always fill my off time with something more fun than work.

I'm a teacher and WFH. I mark work and attend to correspondence only in my normal working hours.

@Lyricallie

Absolutely not. I'm not that important that they can't go a week without me. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow they would have to manage.

I'm flexible in when I have my lunch and if I want to go for a walk etc. But once I've done my 7.58 hours I'm done.

This is me, 100% - down to the "hit by a bus" quote.

I give my work 110% Mon-Fri 9am-5pm, but experience has taught me that time outside of that is my own!

Why not, though? It can be a healthier work pattern to work weekends. If it doesn't work for you, fine. And I agree, no one should be pressured into it. But equally, it shouldn't be stigmatised*

Of course there's nothing wrong with working weekends if they're your paid days to work and you get your days off during the week, but that's not what I was getting at.

People are entitled to their days off and people shouldn't be encouraged to work for free on those days. I can't believe how many people are defending it as normal, to be honest.

No job in the world is that important.

I was strict about taking time off (a good chunk of AL) over Christmas. But beyond that my part time job has morphed into “a bit every day”, as and when needed, sometimes catching up in evenings and at weekends. I never got back on an even keel after the first lockdown as spent the summer hols with no childcare and then last term with no wraparound care (Scotland, have been WFH since March) - on the whole I’ve been glad of the flexibility (but when things are normal again I’ll welcome proper days off).

I am certainly not working when I'm on annual leave! I am being a bit more flexible with which hours I work on a normal working day - sometimes it's 10-6 or even 11-7, and sometimes it's 8-4 or whatever. Or I'll take a break to go to Tesco in the afternoon and catch up later. But that's not annual leave!

@vanillandhoney - oh, I think we're talking cross-purposes. I didn't say longer hours, I said spreading it over more time.

I think the problem with stigmatising this is that it will inevitably hurt women. In my field, all the people who don't have caring responsibilities or disabilities are smugly explaining how they are keeping a lovely healthy 9-5 work pattern during the pandemic, no bother, aren't they great.

Then you see people saying 'and Dr So-and-So sent me an email outside work hours! That is really not on - we must have a rule about it!'

Then Dr So-and-So, who decided to fuck with Monday and went for a long walk with her three children, feels guilty 1) for clocking off on Monday during work hours and 2) for sending an email on Sunday night.

That's just silly. And the unencumbered man colleague could have just left the email unanswered (yes, I know, you can set emails to go out at specific times, but I'm trying to use this as an illustration).

I'm not sure that clocking off Monday to go for a walk with your kids is a bad thing. I think it's quite nice. But to be made to feel guilty about it is a problem.

Nope. I work flexi time and they did away with core hours a few years ago. I’ll work evenings/weekends if I need to but will always take the time back later. I’ve no problem having a conversation with someone while I’m off (happens very occasionally and only if I specifically say to someone I’ll be off but please phone me) but if I need to switch my laptop on I count that as work time. I know others in my organisation work extra hours but it just feeds under resourcing.