We all work when we’re on annual leave (evenings and weekends), don’t we?

[Changedforthisyear]

This new WFH/ managing childcare life has blurred the lines between work and home. I do the school runs during my work time, so then I make that time up later on. My work hours are all over the place. I’m on annual leave today with nothing to do/ nowhere to go and so I’m catching up on work. Are we all doing this?

YANBU we’re all working when we’re on annual leave, evenings and weekends.

YABU most people are sticking rigidly to their usual core hours.

It's a well established fact in project management that while a short period of people working more hours than usual is ok when necessary (eg in software before a code freeze), doing this for extended periods reduces productivity. It's a sign of bad management/underresourcing if this becomes the norm.

Working more flexibly as the OP does - school runs (or presumably now, 'homeschooling') in 'work time' and then working at other times can work very well. That's an entirely different thing.

I will happily work extended hours during the week, including Saturdays to liaise with families at times to suit them. But I will absolutely not work during my annual leave or Sundays. I am contactable by phone in an emergency, but will only advise on how to proceed, I will not do any work myself.

Without a break people burn out. I am better at my job for having those boundaries.

Similar to many on the thread - I'm doing non-work stuff during work hours like feeding my kids lunch which I never used to have to do, or take them for an afternoon walk which has to be in core work hours or they wouldn't get outside during daylight hours. So I work outside office hours to keep on top of stuff if I have work to do. I figure flexibility goes both ways.

Also I always check email when I'm on holiday, but that's more a psychological safety net. I tried the total switch off, but the fear of coming back to the mountain of unread emails was worse than taking 5 mins to check my inbox and then being able to relax the rest of the day. I won't actually do any work though, it's just a quick scan of who has emailed me and subject lines and if others have been cc'ed that I know will deal with it.

I'm still going to work so absolutely not. Apart from last night half hour but was an emergency there was a desperate family in need. Never work on annual leave, I need the leave so I don't have a breakdown.

For half hour, even

Yabu, all this does is start setting new precedent for employees to expect people to do this and if not then your be seen as not a hard worker etc. Bad enough people think just doing your core hours is somehow wrong, whilst I agree a certain bit of flexibility is required e.g the odd late night it shouldn't be the norm yet it somehow has become that.

Of course if your working late to make time lost during the day that is different.

Annual leave is to take a break mentally and physically. If you need to work then cancel your leave.

If you choose to work on your annual leave sonf make a big fuss about it to anyone because again it'll start setting expectations

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

If you let weekend work become a habit, before you know it your boss will be casually giving you a pile of work on a Friday evening that they want finished by Monday morning. In other words, it becomes the norm and the expectation.

Because of the nature of my work, my boss has no idea whether I've done it in work hours or at the weekend unless I start sending emails or otherwise mention it. So I can do it at times that suit me without setting up any expectations.

Completely! I have clients emailing at weekends with urgent requests. Also had an email on New Year's Day with a request from client with deadline of Monday the official First 'working' day of the year.

Some of the companies I work with have in their signatures 'we may not work the same hours, so I am not expecting an immediate reply', which is good as they don't get one. If they email me expecting a weekend reply then they'll be dissapointed.

No, I’m doing my usual hours (8.45-4.45 Tues-Fri as I have childcare.
If I didn’t I’d be flexing though and working when I can.
I don’t do anything on my non working days (Sat-Mon).
Senior HE manager here

Normally I don't, but last week and a bit yes. I work for a large NHS trust and we've had to move services around/stop services/redeploy people at a short notice so all normality is out the window. WFH makes things harder as I can't physically go and see what's happening and often people can only get back to me in the evenings when they finish other stuff.

Normally no but these are not normal times. Will definitely take a long holiday in the spring when things (hopefully) calm down and not check my emails

[quote SarahAndQuack]@vanillandhoney - oh, I think we're talking cross-purposes. I didn't say longer hours, I said spreading it over more time.

I think the problem with stigmatising this is that it will inevitably hurt women. In my field, all the people who don't have caring responsibilities or disabilities are smugly explaining how they are keeping a lovely healthy 9-5 work pattern during the pandemic, no bother, aren't they great.

Then you see people saying 'and Dr So-and-So sent me an email outside work hours! That is really not on - we must have a rule about it!'

Then Dr So-and-So, who decided to fuck with Monday and went for a long walk with her three children, feels guilty 1) for clocking off on Monday during work hours and 2) for sending an email on Sunday night.

That's just silly. And the unencumbered man colleague could have just left the email unanswered (yes, I know, you can set emails to go out at specific times, but I'm trying to use this as an illustration).

I'm not sure that clocking off Monday to go for a walk with your kids is a bad thing. I think it's quite nice. But to be made to feel guilty about it is a problem.[/quote]
It depends on the work right, if you have people spreading work over longer hours how does that work for project work and people needing to get together to make decisions etc.

Thats why core hours work with some flexibility, essentially you available 9-5 and obv due to covid there is some flexibility in this e..g you might need to take houd for homeschooling that you make up later on but it has to be work that you don't need other people for.

Danger with your approach is that people need to be available for longer hours and take mini break throughout the day, id rather have a whole evening off thanks. Not an hour or two here or there and suddenly a meeting is being held at 8pm cos everyone is now available

Might work great for some but not for everyone

@cyclingmad - absolutely not saying it's for everyone.

I know people who prefer to do project work with flexible hours, but it tends to be small teams (max 5 or so), and most of my work is independent. The job I currently have, I technically never have to meet with another person for two years (though of course it's much nicer if I do).

I'm really not trying to say that flexible working is for everyone. My worry is that people start stigmatising it and saying it must be better if we all work certain hours. That leads to people saying it's 'disciplined' to work those hours or implying anyone who doesn't manage it is less 'organised' or less reliable. IMO that discriminates against a lot of working parents who could provide very good work if allowed to do it outside of standard working hours.

Personally, I don't care about evenings to myself - I'm quite happy to settle down to work at 8 or 9 when my DD is going to bed. But I love being able to pick her up from nursery and having some afternoons with her.

Isn't some of this though depending on the kind of job and seniority - so some senior people ( who are paid accordingly - are expected to work out of normal hours without getting overtime payment. If your job utterly pays you between certain hours and no more then yes that is different . Flexi time is different.

omg, please tell me which industries you expect a reply within... 4? 8? 24? hours -- especially to messages sent outside of conventional office hours.

I work in science academia & getting a reply 3 weeks later is completely normal (or maybe never). Getting a reply within hours is wonderful excitement. I am very Genuinely interested in what in the world is standard for reply times in other industries.

Haha, NO!!

Flexible hours are ok, working during annual leave is a no no.

I had 3 days off recently and all 3 days someone in my team was sick so I ended up WFH to help out, but I have been given the days back though

Yep. Keep having to stop work to deal with kids, then have to make up time evenings and weekends. It’s utterly shit.

I don't work extra at all. I actually disagree with working more than my contracted hours and I will only do overtime if it is an emergency and I am being paid extra for it or they are giving me the time back.

A few years ago I was working somewhere and got into the trap of working extra hours, so then I was expected to be there those extra hours. Being exhausted and stressed messed up the way my hormones are produced and I now suffer from chronic migraines as a result. That was when I realised that some things are way more important.

I fully understand the temptation to work, the fact that lines are blurred at the moment and also that lockdown is making people bored but it is essential that we all take a break.

Working constantly. Constantly worrying about work. Mental load is horrendous since March. Can't vote but totally agree with you.

I have a real problem with this - regardless of whether I'm in the office or WFH. I'd be checking and responding to emails as late as 11pm. Trying now to train myself not to, or at least not to after 8pm and when on annual leave unless really urgent. This may actually be my first annual leave during which I didn't spend hours working (I still did check email occasionally). It helped that my boss sent me a message 3 days in (when I responded to his email) in caps lock: GET SOME REST! :)

Yes. But I will also go for a run or do my grocery shopping in the middle of the working day, if my schedule allows, so it's only fair. No, my boss does not send me a load of work to finish by Monday, I'm too senior for that and manage my own tasks.

I am the boss! I don’t expect anyone who works for me to work more than the hours they are paid for, or to answer calls or check emails outside their hours
However flexibility goes a long way on both sides and most of my team are not clock watchers - in return I rarely refuse requests to change hours/days or WFH etc
I struggle to switch off myself though as am conscious that everyone else’s jobs depend on me!
I do take time out and switch my phone off but not as often as I should - I always check emails and phone night before return from leave or on a Sunday but that’s to manage my diary and stress levels the next morning

@cleverknot

omg, please tell me which industries you expect a reply within... 4? 8? 24? hours -- especially to messages sent outside of conventional office hours.

I work in science academia & getting a reply 3 weeks later is completely normal (or maybe never). Getting a reply within hours is wonderful excitement. I am very Genuinely interested in what in the world is standard for reply times in other industries.

Journalism. If there’s a broadcast going out at 4pm, we need the reply before then. You can’t plan the news 3 weeks in advance! But I don’t work in my annual leave.