DH boss wont let him self isolate. What would you do?

[Skatastic]

DH works in a retail shop that has stayed open to click and collect customers and phone orders. Worked with a female colleague all day on Monday both answering the same phone and working on the same computer. No hand sanitisers and no cleaner. Female colleague tested positive for COVID yesterday.

DH was told this morning then told he could "nip out" for a test then back to work. Boss says he doesn't need to isolate as he doesn't have symptoms. Boss says if he doesn't go to work he will get the sack.

What in the world of fuck can we do?

His boss is breaking the law on a number of points.

It is an offence for an employer to knowingly allow a person who should be self-isolating to work anywhere other than where they are completing the isolation. However the gov guidance talks of where informed by the track and trace service or where a member of the household has tested positive rather than the exact situation you're in. Still perhaps worth pointing the employer to the govt information as they can be fined?

www.gov.uk/guidance/if-you-need-to-self-isolate-or-cannot-attend-work-due-to-coronavirus

Until you get told to isolate by Test and Trace then you cannot get an nhs isolation note to let your employer know you are self isolating.

Has she given details yet? Once you get contacted he can get an isolation note online and his employer can't argue with that

Could ACAS help? I think that is illegal. I'd ask him to put in writing that he wants your dp to attend work despite contact with a confirmed covid case.

The female colleague will be contacted by test & trace she will then give DH name as a contact and by law he must isolate

Hmm. My experience is that they either don't contact you at all, or it can take over a week if they do.

But legally I don't think he has to isolate unless it's a close contact or he is told to by test and trace.

Was he within 2 m for over 15 min, 1 metre for 1 min or closer than that for any length of time whilst not wearing a mask? If not my understanding is that it wouldn't count as a close contact.

Obviously he should not go to work though...but not sure what you can actually do.if boss is saying otherwise

It’s a tough decision for your DH, he is between a rock and a hard place. Now I don’t normally advocate lying but I do think he should just say he has started to show symptoms and isn’t very well, he can then have time off. If nasty boss asks for a test, say he will order one, got lost in the post or couldn’t get a appointment, too ill to drive etc. Not nice having to bend the truth, but if he has been in such close contact and being threatened with the sack, honestly what alternative does he have? He reports them, boss will find a reason to sack him anyway!

There should be a covid risk àssessment for the workplace I think, what does that say?

I agree with PP saying get some text confirmation that boss is telling him he will be sacked if he follows the law on self-isolation. Sounds like boss is stupid/arrogant enough to cook his own goose as it were. I think it would be a report to HSE and contact ACAS to start unfair dismissal process but I am far from an expert and hopefully it won't come to that if the employer realises what will come to him if he does sack your DH

Well if he has no symptoms then my understanding is his boss is correct. no need to SI. This is the whole premise of education now too isn't it. If you are deemed a close contact then nobody SI unless they get symptoms or test positive.

Schools were/are planning to test those in close contact daily and they only go home if positive. Not saying I agree with the policy but it is what it is.

O think theres a lot of people sadly in that situation.
My friend tested positive and got a bollocking from her boss for giving colleagues details to track and trace. They've been told not to give details if they have a positive test :/

A friend had a similar situation he tested positive, contacted boss and said here are the names of the people who I had contact with. Boss replied well they don’t need to isolate- he forwarded the track and trace information.
Thankfully the boss listened (with a lot of arm twisting) of the 8 people he had contact with 4 went onto also test positive- if they had also stayed in the warehouse working it would have spread even further with more work colleagues affected! No point in just getting a test as one of the 4 didn’t have symptoms until 8 days later!

@wantmorenow

Well if he has no symptoms then my understanding is his boss is correct. no need to SI. This is the whole premise of education now too isn't it. If you are deemed a close contact then nobody SI unless they get symptoms or test positive.

Schools were/are planning to test those in close contact daily and they only go home if positive. Not saying I agree with the policy but it is what it is.

This is so incorrect!!

If you have contact with a positive case then you isolate for 10 days in case you are in the incubation period.

If you get symptoms in that time then you test and if its positive you isolate 10 days more from the date of symptoms starting

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/when-to-self-isolate-and-what-to-do/

Says to self isolate immediately if you've been told you've been in contact with someone who tested positive.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/nhs-test-and-trace-if-youve-been-in-contact-with-a-person-who-has-coronavirus/

Self isolate for 10 days even if you test negative as could develop symptoms.

Also, the following article is useful as it highlights potential penalty for the employer. The difficulty you have is that obviously your husband doesn't want to destroy his relationship with his employer...
www.employmentlawworldview.com/government-ropes-english-employers-into-new-self-isolation-push/

I think that your husband would need to await being contacted by Test&Trace before he could isolate, or if he started to show symptoms. He won’t need a test unless he shows symptoms.

My husband’s workplace (Royal Mail) recently had an issue where one employee (manager) tested positive. All employees with the app were then notified and told to isolate. The employees without the app were told that they had to continue to work as normal. None were contacted by Test&Trace - we assume that their details weren’t handed over by the positive person.

@wantmorenow you're so wrong it's terrifying. Close contact as PPs have described means you SI for the required number of days. No test required unless he gets symptoms.

Report the premises as they are not covid secure

I would contact HSE and report the company personally..... Has DH worked there over 2yrs, even if he hasn't I think there would still be a case for unfair dismissal

I would phone track and trace for advice. The boss could have also told this woman not to name your DH.
I would get your DH to phone the council for advice, there are covid advice lines for work, tell them he is supposed to be isolating and his boss has threatened him.
Here our council are putting out notices saying if you have been in contact without someone who has tested positive then don’t wait for track and trace!

Sorry for clarification- he worked with her on Monday on a sales counter so easily within 1 foot between 8am and 5.30pm. And like I say using the same (shitty old) phone that colleague has been using.

No track and trace call as yet but she has given his details.

I'm surprised you have even asked what your DH should do. He has been in close contact with a colleague who has tested positive. He should now self-isolate.

To even consider going in and handing over parcels to customers under the circumstances is totally reckless behaviour.

Do you live in a city where they are rolling out tests for the asymptomatic? If not, although I don't normally advocate lying, I absolutely would tell my boss that I have symptoms so can't come in.

I suggest your DH starts looking for another job too. Why would he want to work for someone who does not care about his health and welfare and that of others?

Report the boss to the police for anything he is doing that is illegal and also report to Health & Safety.

Is he saying this by email, text or just verbally? You need a record of him saying it, he's breaking the law.

@SnackSizeRaisin

The female colleague will be contacted by test & trace she will then give DH name as a contact and by law he must isolate

Hmm. My experience is that they either don't contact you at all, or it can take over a week if they do.

But legally I don't think he has to isolate unless it's a close contact or he is told to by test and trace.

Was he within 2 m for over 15 min, 1 metre for 1 min or closer than that for any length of time whilst not wearing a mask? If not my understanding is that it wouldn't count as a close contact.

Obviously he should not go to work though...but not sure what you can actually do.if boss is saying otherwise

@SnackSizeRaisin is correct about the timings and distances, this is the company stance where I work also...big global corporation and a stickler for the rules.

2m for 15mins straight or 1m for 1m are the classifications for "close contact". Just using the same phone of pc is probably not enough (not ideal though) to trigger that as they can't be using it at the same time.

I think your dh needs to continue to work, but he can always check with your local council for guidelines

He needs it in writing, he has to text his boss and say as X has tested positive and they worked closely together on Y date he has to by law self isolate.

Then when boss sacks his he sues for wrongful dismissal.

That’s all you can do really or he could pass it to everyone who gets shopping!

Call the police in the morning on the non-emergency number, ask them to pay a visit.

Please name the shop so anyone local can boycott it.