To think that healthcare students should be paid whilst on placement?

[Backbee]

I find it shocking that those students on placement (nurses, midwives and other HCPs) at the moment, with the heightened risk of covid and assisting in filling in for staff numbers unofficially due to staff shortages should be paid whilst on placement, like some were back in March?

I know some are going to say well they are students, they have chosen to do it, surely they can refuse to go on placement etc. But the reality of delaying placement (if uni will allow) is getting hours for your PIN and being able to secure paid work, which results in a loss, and there's no guarantee when it will be safe to start again. These are people passionate about a career and we need them, some are on covid wards and others are putting themselves and families at risk; yes they are choosing to, but we also need graduates and new HCPs so it's in all of our interests to help support them.

Any thoughts?

I meant find it shocking they aren't paid, and that they should be.

One size doesn't fit all. A student nurse on their first placement is not filling in for staff at all and (correctly) requires constant supervision and observation.

Student teachers are not paid.

They are in Scotland but nurses aren’t the only students on placement, Social workers are too

Back in my day student nurses were employees of the hospital. We had schools of nursing attached to the hospital. I lived in student nurse accommodation (low rent and included all my bills), and I was paid a wage.

Student teachers are not paid

Up until this intake some subjects recieved bursaries of up to 30k. In any case, race to the bottom much? Surely we can also campaign for student teachers to be paid fairly?

One size doesn't fit all. A student nurse on their first placement is not filling in for staff at all and (correctly) requires constant supervision and observation.

Indeed, that's why many were pulled last time and have since had to work ridiculous shifts to make up their required hours. Seen as though after a term you can be signed off for bank HCA roles, do you think no first years are doing anything of value?

@millymoo1202 yes they should be included too then, not sure why well x doesn't so no one should is an argument.

Back in my day student nurses were employees of the hospital. We had schools of nursing attached to the hospital. I lived in student nurse accommodation (low rent and included all my bills), and I was paid a wage.

Yes that sounds great, some trusts have brought back the associate roles, but very few numbers. Finance is such a barrier to entering the profession now, even with the £5k bursary, when you're paying £9k plus a year and not all of the spends get reimbursed now its savage.

They are already getting paid - paid in experience. The experience of being thrown in at the deep end, learning in the worst of environments. It's make or break for them - they are forced to accept the reality of the career they have chosen. The ones that stick with it will be better for the experience, it's reasonably likely that they will only encounter this situation once in their career, so the rest will be comparatively easy.

No they shouldn't be paid. But they equally shouldn't be treated like a member of staff or a general dogsbody.

Their course fees cover both learning in and out of the university setting, and placements are a key part of that where they can observe professionals and learn how to undertake various tasks. But they shouldn't be left alone or to their own devices at any point. They're not 'working' they're learning, and should never feel any pressure or that them not completing tasks would cause a problem - they are there to be trained, not as a temporary addition to the workforce.

The problem is that many healthcare settings get this wrong, and use them as an extension to their team to help ease pressure.

Completely agree op.

They are already getting paid - paid in experience. If only experience paid the bills eh!

They are already getting paid - paid in experience.

Ah yes, that wonderful experience of being on a covid ward with zero pay, delightful. Although this is the reality at the moment, covid thankfully isn't likely to be constantly overwhelming the NHS, when elective surgeries etc resume it is probably more beneficial if they have had experience in that.

The problem is that many healthcare settings get this wrong, and use them as an extension to their team to help ease pressure.

Indeed they do, at expense to their learning more often than not. It's tricky as I understand having a student is actually time consuming and when busy quite frankly a pain in the arse, but we need more HCPs so it needs to be done otherwise the perpetual circle carries on of being short. Ideally I suppose in the case of nurses more would appear out of thin air to ease the burden on both students and staff, as that isn't happening, it's more realistic perhaps to adapt placement blocks to be more of a hybrid.

Last I checked HCPs have hugely reduced tuition fees paid for by the NHS to reflect that they do so many weeks of placement work. Has that changed?

In fact, not only do they not get paid, but student HCPs are actually paying TO work.

You’re right, it’s a disgrace.

@FudgeSundae

Last I checked HCPs have hugely reduced tuition fees paid for by the NHS to reflect that they do so many weeks of placement work. Has that changed?

Yes, four years ago. They now end up graduating with £50k debt like the rest of us.

Up until this intake some subjects recieved bursaries of up to 30k

DS2 got a bursary, it didn’t even cover his rent. We paid for most things (we’re a one income family, not high rate tax payers) and he had to get a job as did most of his friends. Not one of them got £10k a year. He’s been qualified 2.5years.

In 1992 when I was a project 2000 student we got £360 a month, we paid £90 a month for a room in the school of nursing and were supposed to be supernumerary but never were.

Student nurses shouldn’t be paying tuition fees and they should be receiving a bursary that is fair to all.

Lots of student nurses do bank as health care assistants.

Yes, I was shocked to find that a student nurse on a full on covid ward, where all the patients had covid and the staff were dropping like flies, was not being paid and not being given any choice about whether she wanted to accept the risk or not.
Whereas in March, they were given the choice about whether to defer or whether to continue with pay and do (even) more of a dual role, part HCA and part student nurse

DS is in his final year of a Psychology degree and he worked at an educational setting for autistic young adults as an intern for his placement year.

He was paid a good wage and gained several qualifications in the process. I don’t know how he’d have managed without some form of income, especially as he was driving 250 miles a week to work.

Lots of student nurses do bank as health care assistants

Which is hours above and beyond and seperate to their placement hours, and unmanageable for many.

If we were being placed on specific high risk wards outside of our control then I would be more inclined to agree, but that is unlikely in my experience. We already get a minimum £5k bursary (more if studying a harder to recruit field or if you have children) on top of the usual finance which is more than most students as we do longer courses. For example just off student finance alone you are eligible for up to £11.5k on most courses. Then the bursary of at least £5k on top. Plus it’s easy to get a job on bank and earn extra money not to the detriment of your studies.

FYI I do recognise that the Student finance amount varies by the individual and some might only get around £4.5k, I was just stating what it was possible to get at the higher amount

LindaEllen
Yes I agree with that.
They can’t have it both ways.
Either they are a valuable and additional member of the workforce in which case they
Should get paid or they are there to learn and observe.