To think that healthcare students should be paid whilst on placement?

[Backbee]

I find it shocking that those students on placement (nurses, midwives and other HCPs) at the moment, with the heightened risk of covid and assisting in filling in for staff numbers unofficially due to staff shortages should be paid whilst on placement, like some were back in March?

I know some are going to say well they are students, they have chosen to do it, surely they can refuse to go on placement etc. But the reality of delaying placement (if uni will allow) is getting hours for your PIN and being able to secure paid work, which results in a loss, and there's no guarantee when it will be safe to start again. These are people passionate about a career and we need them, some are on covid wards and others are putting themselves and families at risk; yes they are choosing to, but we also need graduates and new HCPs so it's in all of our interests to help support them.

Any thoughts?

@catchabreak2020 Nurse A who graduated just a few years ago keeps all of their wage because they trained before fees were no longer paid for, Nurse B graduated this year, and throughout her whole career she will be on a % less take home pay paying off her student loan, whilst many others she works with don't. That would gripe me to be honest, plus finance can vary wildly. You can have more as you're on a long course, but in that time many students can work as they wouldn't be expected to be in lectures or on placement- it's not really extra as it stops you earning elsewhere. The £5k bursary is a step in the right direction.

[quote Backbee]@catchabreak2020 Nurse A who graduated just a few years ago keeps all of their wage because they trained before fees were no longer paid for, Nurse B graduated this year, and throughout her whole career she will be on a % less take home pay paying off her student loan, whilst many others she works with don't. That would gripe me to be honest, plus finance can vary wildly. You can have more as you're on a long course, but in that time many students can work as they wouldn't be expected to be in lectures or on placement- it's not really extra as it stops you earning elsewhere. The £5k bursary is a step in the right direction.[/quote]
I get your point about the Loan for fees. In my personal experience the student nurses I go to uni with have actually been more likely to work because a lot already have jobs as carers beforehand or have found it easy to get a job working on the bank. This is a lot more flexible than most student jobs and pays more too. During covid it has been an even greater benefit as we’ve still been able to get shifts no matter what the restrictions. I think an extra couple grand a year in student finance makes up for the possible difference in earnings in a lot of cases. I do think they should look into increasing the bursary so that more people are guaranteed the money that they won’t have to pay back. It would mean some students (myself included) would be much better off than when we qualify though!

I am a student social worker- my placement is four days a week. Also a single parent. On the day I have off is lectures. I've had to stop working my part time job so it's such a struggle at the moment. My placement started in November and I'm there until June. I only have the Easter two weeks off but cannot work due to the cost of childcare.

As a third year student nurse who has 70k student debt, yes we should absolutely be paid. I worked all through covid on the covid wards and seen things that nobody should see. The comments on here are disgraceful

@Flowers94

As a third year student nurse who has 70k student debt, yes we should absolutely be paid. I worked all through covid on the covid wards and seen things that nobody should see. The comments on here are disgraceful

I definitely think if you’re working on covid wards you should be paid! That goes beyond just training which you could get elsewhere. You’re doing a great job

If they were paid they would loose their supernumerary status.

@Backbee

Student teachers are not paid

Up until this intake some subjects recieved bursaries of up to 30k. In any case, race to the bottom much? Surely we can also campaign for student teachers to be paid fairly?

A very small number each year- secondary only and in hard to recruit subjects. Only PGCE

The vast majority have to pay tuition and receive no funding.

They should be getting paid on par with apprentices at least - they are learning but they are providing a service that this country relies on. If covid has taught us anything its that we have a shortage of healthcare professionals - we need to fund it accordingly

It was fair before because they didn’t have to pay tuition fees. Free education and training but doing placements which helped the hospitals. Now they do have to pay, they should receive a small wage for placements, perhaps the same as an apprentice wage?

@missyB1

Back in my day student nurses were employees of the hospital. We had schools of nursing attached to the hospital. I lived in student nurse accommodation (low rent and included all my bills), and I was paid a wage.

You must have trained at a similar time to me....I started in 1990 and was one of the last to train under the traditional route. They had started rolling out P2K and you could choose between them, but I liked the look of the traditional and have never regretted it. Happy Days! I loved my training.

Trainee teachers are not paid when they do their placements. On my first, I taught for two weeks on my own and unsupervised because the teacher of the class was off sick. After my fourth placement, and while completing my degree, I was offered the opportunity to teach for one day a week, replacing a teacher who was on a course. Again , I wasn’t paid but I gained a load of experience and had the edge over other new entrants to the profession.

Yanbu...i am training in alleid health and i have " worked" since 1st year placement. We should not get the wage of a qualified role but in 1st year I was expected to clean, stock up and basically do the work of an assistant on top of learning.
There are staff shortages as not many are prepared to pay 9 grand uni fees to provide canon fodder for the NHS.
I do kind of regret retraining as it much harder than i anticipated...partly as students get treated like shit.

I got paid when i trained as a teavher...if you count a large bursary. I got 20,000 back in 2006.

The thing is, most people don't learn adequately by observing...they learn by doing. As in working.

@Smileyaxolotl1

LindaEllen Yes I agree with that. They can’t have it both ways. Either they are a valuable and additional member of the workforce in which case they Should get paid or they are there to learn and observe.

Student nurses on placement learn by doing, though. And they are very useful and valued (unpaid) members of the workforce. It's quite a difficult balancing act for student nurses. They're essentially doing 2 jobs at the same time, plus all the academic stuff. So much easier when qualified!!

Teacher*

@Toddlerteaplease most students on adult wards are not supernumerary by any stretch of the imagination. I think paediatric wards are staffed better so the students might have a chance of being supernumerary.

I was lucky and did my training through an apprenticeship. So full pay while training. I now work on the ward I trained on.
Other student nurses got screwed over and I felt sorry for them.
Since this shit storm started I've seen about 3 student nurses in the trust, the rest are trainee nursing associates.

Third year students on placement should absolutely be paid. Yes.

The first response to this "one size doesn't fit all"
Was a really daft response.

As if a first and third year student would be treated the same at any point, pandemic or not.

@HildegardNightingale yes we are better staffed and have smaller workloads.

For teachers it depends on the subject and whether you go down the salaried route or not (only possible with some subjects).

My daughter has a place on a school-based ITT programme next year. It will cost £9,250. There are generous bursaries available for some subjects, but unfortunately not hers. The school also takes on some trainees and pays them as unqualified teachers while they train, but again that option is not available in her subject.

DD is studying OT in Wales (but does not come from wales), she could apply for the bursary but it wasnt worth it because of the following reasons

1. The maintenance loan would be a lot less than a normal maintenance loan even with the bursary. She would not be able to afford rent etc

1. Paying back the maintenance loan is the same as normal student loan, so basically be paying the same whether her loan was over 40,000 or the £8000 she would have got over the 3 years ie 9% of wages over 25k.The only advantage was she may have paid off the loan completely by about 40 instead of it being written off at 54

1. She would be tied to working for NHS wales for 2 years , she loves Wales and will be staying when she finishes this year, however if she does not take a job in Wales NHS (and choice is fairly limited) or drops out of the course, she has to pay the fees back instantly and would mostly have to find a loan of £30000. She cannot pay these fees back through student finance. I enquired at the time

She has done her 1000 hours of placement unpaid but all her expenses have been paid including travel and extra rent when she has been away from Cardiff.
I dont think it bothers her that she hasnt been paid at all

Yes they should get payed. Or are people just happy to be 2 faced and clap. Tory supporters.

Absolutely should be paid. Apprentices make a (low) wage while they’re learning, as do many other professions. The best people for the job shouldn’t be priced out from even starting.

I’ve also read recently student nurses aren’t considered for the covid vaccine as they aren’t employees, which I hope isn’t true or is changed.