To think my employer has got my holiday wrong?

[Randomname85]

I’ll try to keep this brief. I work 2.5 days spread over 5 days (so 5 half days per week). Full time employees are entitled to 30 days holiday, I am therefore entitled to 15. I assumed then if I was to book a ‘day off’ (my working day) I would be booking a half day off. For a better example:

A full time employee with 30 days holiday wants to take 2 weeks off they use 10 days leaving them 20 days , you would take 5 days from your 15 leaving you with 10

However my employer is saying I would have to book FULL days off - so I’d need to book 10 days for those 2 weeks and not 5! I’ve never known this to be the case anywhere I’ve ever worked before but I can’t find solid proof anywhere online.

Help?!

I’m really sorry if I seem dim but when I fill in the holiday calculater on the gov website it just says I’m entitled to 14 days holiday - no other information.

I have gone into detail with the employer saying even though I’m entitled to 15 days it is spread over 30 days as its 15 half days and they’ve just said no! I don’t really know how else to approach it without something written down! Maybe I’ll just send them this thread 😂

I think there's a simple miscommunication here. Your employer is asking you to book 10 full days leave if you want to have two weeks off. Which is correct. 10 of your normal length days.

I think you are thinking of your leave in full days (your OP says you get 15 full days leave - you don't, you get 30 of your normal length days).

you are entitled to 15 FULL days but only need to use half a day each time you want to not come in one day.

Give them an example of you wanting a week off, you would be off 5 days, using up 5 1/2 days holiday, therefore you use up 2.5 of your 15 days allowance. (which is about 1/5 or so)

@titchy I honestly thought it was miscommunication but we’ve been over it various times and she has said no.

For simplicity, think of 'sessions''

You work 5 sessions out of 10 per week

your holiday entitlement is 30 sessions. so if you want one tuesday morning off , It uses one of your holiday entitlements, (not half of one)

it also depends on how you work. if you do actually 2 1/2 days off (so say Monday morning to Wed lunchtime) then its more logical to think of it as 15 days holiday and you use up 2 1/2 days to book that week off.

@Randomname85

I’m really sorry if I seem dim but when I fill in the holiday calculater on the gov website it just says I’m entitled to 14 days holiday - no other information.

I have gone into detail with the employer saying even though I’m entitled to 15 days it is spread over 30 days as its 15 half days and they’ve just said no! I don’t really know how else to approach it without something written down! Maybe I’ll just send them this thread 😂

You're filling it in wrong then! When it asks for days you work they mean how many days you are physically in work which is 5. Also the calculation is only allowing for the minimum which is 5.6 weeks for full time whereas your employer offers 6 weeks for full timers

You get 6 x 5 days = 30 days but your day is half the size of a full timer

Point it out to them in hours.

A FT employee gets XXXX hours of annual leave.

I would 50% of what they do so I get half of the above amount of hours.

As I work 20 hours per week, please allocate my XXXX hours against those 20 hours. Do not allocate annual leave against the time I am not on the clock.

IME Lots of people struggle with even fairly basic maths and cock up annual leave all the time. I would write it down in hours and show your manager that way, that's probably the simplest way to ensure they get what you are talk about. Half days is more confusing as people aren't used to working in half days. Good luck.

[quote Randomname85]@titchy I honestly thought it was miscommunication but we’ve been over it various times and she has said no.[/quote]
could you not give her an example of 2 people, 1 full time, 1 not and both wanting to book ALL of Jan off (ie use up all holiday)

Should be perfectly possible for both staff members to do this with having 30 days hol (i assume that also includes bank holidays?), but in her example, the part time person can't - but can she explain why they can't?

Your employer has probably decided you’re entitled to 6 weeks’ holiday and holiday pay in the same way as other FT employees. Which is true, if it’s calculated in weeks, but it isn’t - it’s calculated in days, so it doesn’t work unless they apply it properly in hours or half days.

A better way to do it is hours - so a full time employee gets 30 (days) x 7 (hours) = 210 hours. Your pro rata equivalent is half, so 105 hours (or 15 days).

I’m not sure why your employer is struggling - it’s common sense that if you only work half a day, you only need to take half a days leave!

Ask him/her if when she takes a week's leave, if they book off the Saturday & Sunday.

When they say, no I don't work Saturday or Sunday.

Say, yes, that's right. And I don't work afternoons! So I don't have to book it as holiday.

Or ask them.to do it in hours so you get 6 weeks worth of the number of hours you do each week e.g. if you work 20 hours you get 6 x 20 hours of holiday = 120hours

When you take a holiday the number of hours you are off is deducted from the total.

Your HR person sounds clueless!

Is it worth phrasing it in writing like...
'I work 4 hours a day when a normal person works 8, so I work half hours and therefore am entitled to .5 of a full time persons holiday (which is 240 hours) so my entitlement would be .5 of that which is 120.
120 hours gives me 30 days leave, and i can only take leave during time i would normally be scheduled to work, so thats 4 hours a day.
If i book the 30 days off as i am entitled to at 8 hours a day as you are suggesting, in your records it will show i have taken 240 hours even though i am only entitled to 120. Can you confirm that that this is is what you are requesting?'

Because realistically, its her records that will be wrong, you just need proof in writing she's asking you to do it wrong? Id even go as far as to write a list of 30 dates you want off with the number of hours next to each of them yo say 'okay so if i booked these 30 days then the number of hours i normally work is 4 = 120 but you want me to do 8 so = 240?

Incidentally it’s a breach of the Part Time Workers legislation which specifically applies a pro rata principle and prevents less favourable treatment solely due to part time status... so you could theoretically sue them under this legislation and potentially the Working Time Regulations too, if their calculation takes you under the statutory minimum...

I hope this person doesn't do payroll. Sounds like it would never be right!

Does your HR system allow you to book half days off? If so, that’s the answer—you use x “days” but only book mornings off. You have 15 days leave, however that equals 30 mornings off.

Also your HR manager clearly can’t count 😂

All our holiday is in hours, which makes it easier in some ways! However, when I book off the day I work 3.5hrs (of 7 for a whole day) I have to put it through as a whole day in the system, but it only deducts the 3.5hrs I actually work from my holiday entitlement. Is there a miscommunication here, where you need to book off 10 “days” from your 30 “days” holiday entitlement, but each of your days is actually half a day?

I’m part time and this properly confused me until I realised my holiday hours were provided in hours not days.
I’d ask for it to be broke down like that to help!

Perhaps ask - when I take a days holiday are you paying me for a full day or a half day?

It may be easier to ask them to convert it to hours to point it out to them?

I'm a HR manager and your HR manager is right. Do you use a HR system to book your holiday?

You are entitled to 30 days holiday a year (as per your company policy) therefore you are entitled to 30 'half days' as your work part time. Your 'full day' is a 'half a day'.

Your HR is telling you to book 'full days' it'll because your 'full day' is a half day of which you're entitled to 30 of.

If you have an HR system you will be programmed into the system this way I.e: a half a day is YOUR full day. Therefore when they are telling you to book 10 'full days' it is because it is 10 of your 'full days'. If you only booked 5 'full days' you would only get paid half of what you're entitled to because your 'full day' is half a day therefore you would get paid 5 half days.

Ye gods! If only all HR managers spoke so eruditely.

That makes sense if the apparent loggerhead!

Work your entitlement out In Hours and book your holiday in hours.

@VanquishGirl

I'm a HR manager and your HR manager is right. Do you use a HR system to book your holiday?

You are entitled to 30 days holiday a year (as per your company policy) therefore you are entitled to 30 'half days' as your work part time. Your 'full day' is a 'half a day'.

Your HR is telling you to book 'full days' it'll because your 'full day' is a half day of which you're entitled to 30 of.

If you have an HR system you will be programmed into the system this way I.e: a half a day is YOUR full day. Therefore when they are telling you to book 10 'full days' it is because it is 10 of your 'full days'. If you only booked 5 'full days' you would only get paid half of what you're entitled to because your 'full day' is half a day therefore you would get paid 5 half days.

Her HR has told her she has 15 days though, not 30 so they are wrong