To wonder how this person qualified for free school meals

[Sectionsofintercost]

Someone at work bought a house which is being extended before they move in, the pandemic has put the brakes on the moving in but she shares photos of what's being done to the house.

It was purchased over a year ago in order for them to get their child into the secondary school catchment.

I'm not sure where exactly they live now, if they're renting or own that house as well.

A few months ago she let slip that her daughter in yr7 is on free school meals. It's likely that her husband lost income due to the pandemic, he's self employed. I can see that would have impacted on their finances
I get full housing benefit but don't qualify for free school meals.

I am happy to pay for my DCs food at school as there are others much worse off than me but I would love to be able to afford the long term security of owning my own home. I think something dodgy must be going on.

All the information you know about their financial situation is from what your colleague has told you - she's not necessarily telling you the truth!

You sound a bit interfering (telling her to inform FSM of change in income) and if it were me, I would give your short answers (I'll talk to my accountant) / tell you things to wind you up (own a house outright).

"I haven't applied for FSM."

You should have done. FSM gives the school a pupil premium payment. The more people who apply, the more the school will get. Parents claiming FSM benefits all pupils.

As said, this might be an overrun of an old period of low income. People don't tell the truth, they often make out that they are doing better than they are. They may have been given help.

The benefit rules don't make sense and people who really need help don't get it. But unless we are directly affected, we don't take that much notice of the Charities lobbying the government and don't get behind them.

OP owning your own home isn't all it can be cracked up to be. I inherited a house and moved out of my HA house. I now live with a underperforming heating system and damp. Previously I was getting full housing benefit in a fully maintained house. Be honest that your questioning is because of jealousy.

OP owning your own home isn't all it can be cracked up to be. I inherited a house and moved out of my HA house. I now live with a underperforming heating system and damp. Previously I was getting full housing benefit in a fully maintained house. Be honest that your questioning is because of jealousy.

Not envious, a HA property or home owning is much less precarious than private rented. There are people much worse off than this person who don't get FSM.

Or these things were paid for before. And now their income has dropped.

They are currently doing up a second home whilst on FSM, the LA probably think they already live there if they got their child a place in the catchment school from the waiting list. There are others around me who are much worse off and not getting FSM.

Some other kid probably lost out on a school place too but that's another story.

@Sectionsofintercost

Free school meals are for people on extremely low income and evidence has to be provided. It is not a limited pot that if this lady takes it, someone else is deprived. She is entitled because their family income is low and they need help to feed their child.

Yes, you are right, they must be entitled. Maybe they have generous relatives who helped them buy the house to get their DCs into the oversubscribed secondary school and they are also funding the upgrade of the house.

Are you suggesting they’ve fraudulently applied for FSM? They will have had to submit evidence so you must be suggesting they’ve faked it.

Maybe because he is self employed he declares income under the threshold and so qualifies?

@Sectionsofintercost

Dividends still count as income for benefits so no advantage of being self employed unless you can leave everything in the company.

“Some other kid probably lost out on a school place too but that's another story.”

I guess your child didn’t get in to your preferred secondary?

There os one way and one way only to build a world where every child has access to adequate education, hot food, a fair and transparent welfare state, secure and affordable housing and that is to vote, and to lobby your mp to take action on these things. Fighting over the scraps with people who are just as fucked as you are is a total waste of energy that enables the wealth gap to keep on growing because small minded thickos care more about mrs next door’s acrylic nails and flat screen telly than about living under the most venal, corrupt, incompetent government this country has ever seen.

You’re very privileged if this is your biggest concern right now.

There are others around me who are much worse off and not getting FSM.

OP I’m finding it hard to believe that “others around you” discuss not only their finances but their eligibility or otherwise for free school meals.

I know we’re in a national lockdown but surely to goodness there must be something else for you to spend time exercising your brain over?

Gosh, the more you post the more envious and bitter you sound. Clearly you’re envious of what this woman has and of her personally and dislike her. Generally I find that happens when people are deeply unhappy about their own situation.

Instead of focusing on her like this, it is healthier to focus on your own situation, how to improve it, how to bring yourself out of these feelings. Because the only person being hurt by them is you. It’s you they are damaging.

It's depressing when people waste so much energy being consumed with what others get in benefits when the government hand out millions to their friends for useless PPE (or garden bridges or any other stupid wastes of money you can think of).

It's none of your business. You have no idea what the finances of this couple are. In my experience, people who are struggling financially often try really hard to make it appear they aren't because our society is obsessed with determining your worth as a person based on how much you earn.

Everything @Bluntness100 said.

Are you suggesting they’ve fraudulently applied for FSM? They will have had to submit evidence so you must be suggesting they’ve faked it.

Well there are scammers, I worked in benefits a very long time ago, would often phone up a full time single parent to be told they're out at work. Funniest one was a bloke claiming full benefits and his answer machine message was for his roofing company. He had his own business he wasn't declaring

@badwill saying you earn less than you do isn't just morally wrong ii is also illegal , I believe they call it fraud

All those saying it has nothing to do with others , it does if someone is claiming what they are not entitled to as taxpayers we pay for it and worse of all it means less for to those that actually do need it .

People are aware people do claim who are not really entitled as well right ?
Saying they earn leSs etc and in real life I know plenty who discuss what benefits they do or don't get.
But from sounds of things in this case they may get from a legacy claim.
I know quite a few people who are actually entitled to fsm who don't have them for various reasons as well .

None of your business op. But if you're desperate to know why don't you just ask the family concerned?

Maybe they inherited and bout the house with that... who cares 🤷‍♀️

It was stated by my council that children would keep their free school meal until the end of their current phase of education, i.e. primary or secondary once UC was rolled out (afaik it still isn't fully rolled out?) so perhaps theirs is an older claim? No idea. School meals for two kids costs me 92.80 a month so not cheap, no.

Her DC has just started yr7 so it should have been reviewed. It seems crazy that a free meals award is open ended.

@Sectionsofintercost

Because its not enough the state is paying her rent, she wants more free stuff!

Not at all, I actually said in I don't mind paying for school meals, there are others worse off. I haven't applied for FSM.

Given a lot of the problem appears to be you think she is better off and is getting them, when you are struggling and paying, its probably a good idea to try applying tbh. I am almost sure you would get them, without knowing other circumstances, if your income is low enough to qualify for full housing benefit. Mainly as I know I was entitled when I was on under half housing benefit due to wages, so would find it extremely odd if someone who clearly has a lower income than I did then, was deemed to have to high an income.

@FamilyOfAliens

Not at all, I actually said in I don't mind paying for school meals, there are others worse off. I haven't applied for FSM.

You do know that it’s not a limited pot, don’t you, OP? Someone not applying for FSM that their child is entitled to doesn’t mean there’s more available for everyone else.

Yes this too.

Our school actually actively asks parents, even those who have packed lunches, to try applying. As apparently even if not used, the school can get more funding that way? Not sure how true that is, and it sounds the schools messing around with numbers somewhat, but given how underfunded they are and how much money seems to be pulled from thin air once the government want is, I cannot begrudge them potentially playing they system a bit to get the help they clearly need. That they even have to consider doing that, is shocking in itself really.

I know people who live off a massive inheritance, work self employed very minimally and get all sorts on the basis of low income. Not really how the system is supposed to work but it isn't going to break it either.

OP I’m finding it hard to believe that “others around you” discuss not only their finances but their eligibility or otherwise for free school meals.

Also this, this is often said on threads such as this.

Noone knows we get FSM, besides the school. Infact, I have denied getting them when asked once, so that people didn't gossip. A few friends probably know, as I have helped them with a lot of benefit related stuff so its quite obvious I have a fair bit of knowledge/experience in the area, and I have convinced one friend who was really really struggling that yes, she was entitled to universal credit, and FSM and she is now still obviously on quite a low income, but been bosted enough so that she is not quite on the bones of her arse like she was. Thats the only time income is ever discussed with my friends/family really, if asking for advice on a situation. And the people who start these kinds of threads, are either hugely twofaced, or are the sort of people most would actively avoid if looking for support/advice about what help they could get. Hence, I find it odd how near all threads of this kind, have the OP knowing neighbours, SIL, friends exact income and outgoings. Even with helping with benefit stuff, I couldn't tell you anyones exact income and that, I just know that at the stage I helped, they needed benefits. They might have more now, maybe less. I won't find out, and don't particularly care either unless they need help in some way. At which stage, I will try as much as possible to help them in whatever way I can, usually by giving advice.

Get a bit obsessed with benefit stuff on here too sometimes and post a bit too much maybe in some threads about it. A thread a few days back, the OP had been told she was not able to claim ESA, but was not eligible for UC, but she was surviving on PIP and maintenence. Just the fact she has daily living in PIP made her able to apply for old style ESA rather than UC. But this was hidden from her, as the ESA system tends to be a bit more generous than UC too, so its often denied its possible by jobcentres and such until you really push it. Have heard a couple of times about people being told they cannot get ESA as its not a thing anymore. For anyone who qualifies for a;'severe disability preium' this is simply not true, even if you never claimed ESA before, if you get PIP you can start a new ESA claim.

Its constant obstacles though, to claim anything really, bar child benefit which has been the only one I have been on thats never fucked up at any stage. Its designed to be constant obstacles, especially for people with disabilities.

Bit OT that, but OP you really should apply. You are taking away from noone else, it would benefit the school aswell as you (as I understand it anyway) and it might ease some of the jealousy also, along with boosting your income somewhat. Definitely worth trying. I would advise not telling anyone you applied though, or there could be a thread about you on here next week by someone envious that your income is low enough to get FSM, while their 50k means they have to pay for them and its massively unfair..

Our school actually actively asks parents, even those who have packed lunches, to try applying. As apparently even if not used, the school can get more funding that way? Not sure how true that is, and it sounds the schools messing around with numbers somewhat, but given how underfunded they are and how much money seems to be pulled from thin air once the government want is, I cannot begrudge them potentially playing they system a bit to get the help they clearly need. That they even have to consider doing that, is shocking in itself really.

It is true and it isn’t “playing the system”.

Children who are on FSM or have been in the past 6 years (“Ever6”) attract pupil premium, an amount of money paid every year by the government to the school for that pupil while they are attending.

When Universal FSM came in for infants, the school had to actively ask parents if they would be eligible - not many wanted to divulge their financial situation just so the school could get more money, but with school budgets pared down to the bone now, every penny counts.

it means less for to those that actually do need it

It doesn't really though. Every year there is more in unclaimed benefits than is lost to fraud, yet, benefits are cut/frozen all the time. If the 'others who need it would get more' was true, then surely there would not be billions excess in unclaimed stuff, as the extra would be shared between those who are eligible for it instead.