New lockdown- do I pay cleaner?

[Bizawit]

I’ve had my cleaner since the summer. Best cleaner I’ve ever had, and she really makes a difference to my well-being. Although it is still allowed in the rules, she
texted me this evening saying that she wouldn’t be coming for the next few weeks because she doesn’t feel safe using public transport and mixing in different households etc, and with schools closed she has her children at home (her youngest is 14 so not small children).

The question is do I need to continue to pay her for the weeks she doesn’t come? I’m thinking that she might be expecting me to offer, and she is such a good cleaner I don’t want to lose her. Plus she’s a lovely person and I don’t want to be an arsehole/ put her in a difficult spot. On the other hand it is her choice not to come to work, and it is a fair amount of money for a service I’m not receiving. My DP says there’s no need to pay her and I shouldn’t , but I’m not sure he is right. So:

YABU - no need to pay the cleaner during lockdown.

YANBU - yes you should pay the cleaner.

No, if she’s chosen not to come - you don’t need to pay her.
Just text back ‘thanks for letting me know, we’ll look forward to your return’ or something similar.

No you don’t pay because she is choosing not to come , this could go on for weeks and you may want to get a different cleaner in .

We're paying ours, as we have through previous lockdowns - we're still getting paid, so she should be too (help for the self employed doesn't help her).

However, yours is the one refusing to work here rather than a mutual agreement like I have with my cleaner, so assuming you can afford it you could pay half?

Thanks @Persephonegoddess I think I will do something like that.

For now I text back and said not to worry, I understand and please let me know when she is ready to start again. Her reply made me think she’s not hugely thrilled at no mention of money :/. But maybe I’m over analysing it . Honestly scoring a good cleaner where I live is so difficult, it’s like dating 😂. I have been rejected so many times , and the ones who stick around tend to be utter rubbish 😂 . So having finally found someone as good as her I really want to do what I can to keep her..

Thanks to all for the replies/ sharing of experience/ advice.

So utterly rubbish those who paid all through lockdown and then got dumped by their cleaners . Where’s the loyalty?

@Dogand2boys

My sister is a cleaner and I’d happy to still go to work. However clients have been texting and canceling left right and centre. Nine of them offering to pay. She has had most of them for years. She has totally panicking as I’ll have no money coming in )don’t think she can claim the next grant till mid feb so in the meantime she has nothing) Her clients are all rich. Bunch of arseholes.

Oh no your poor sister 😔. Can she claim from the self employed scheme? I do think it’s a little bit different in her case because the clients are cancelling on her. If I cancelled on my cleaner I think I’d feel much more obliged to pay, but actually I really wish she would come and partly I am worried that if I pay her she’ll stay away for longer..

As she is permitted to work but chooses not to, then, no, I wouldn't pay her. I might consider paying a retainer but it wouldn't be more than 1/3 of what I normally pay.

Ooh, I feel miserly now. Maybe I'd pay her half to retain her.

Does your cleaner have other clients?

It's different this time, last time we weren't supposed to work in other people's houses so we were paid by those who were still being paid themselves, which was greatly appreciated!

If I chose not to work this time I wouldn't expect paying

I'd definitely try offer to pay half as a retainer like PPS have suggested. I had similar with my childminder both me and dh were working outside the home and our childminder didn't feel comfortable taking the children. We have had her years but we paid half but that dropped again when my wages dropped further but she understood.
The fact the cleaner is allowed but doesn't want to given the circumstances I think half is fair maybe for an agreed period of weeks and then review it again?

I don't think you should pay but if you really do decide you want to go down the retainer route rather than be a mug and pay someone who may or may not come back and who may or may not continue to work for you after her return why not say you will pay a bonus on her return/three months after her return?

Depending on distance I’d be tempted to offer a taxi both ways once a fortnight for a deep clean and buy her a good face mask. I’d rather spend more and get cleaning than spend less and still have to clean. I’m horribly busy at the moment though; if I weren’t I might chose differently.

@Kokeshi123

I think that cleaners arouse a lot of guilt-associated/class-linked anxiety among a lot of Mumsnetters, leading to overcompensation in the form of demands that other posters pay cleaners for ever for not working. I do a white-collar job as a self employed person, so I'm sure none of my clients would feel all guilt-ridden about not paying me for work I don't do.

When you choose to work as a self-employed person, the ups and downs of work availability are something you have to factor in. There are many other compensating advantages of being self-employed---flexibility, cutting out the middleperson, opportunities to profit from self-marketing and so on.

I've noticed that the two services that you're supposed to not use currently but also to keep paying to not use, according to MN, are domestic cleaners and nurseries. In both cases you're supposed to put them first and do the work yourself while paying them to (not) do it. I don't think it's a coincidence that these are both forms of 'women's work' that women are supposed to feel guilty and self-indulgent for not doing entirely by themselves in the first place.

My brother is a self-employed electrician who has had some booked in jobs cancelled by people who don't feel comfortable having him in the house. None of them have offered to pay him anyway for the work he's now not doing and I'd be astonished if anyone argued that they should.

She said she anticipated being off for 3/4 weeks. If I pay her maybe she will prefer to stay off the whole lockdown which will be at least 6 weeks maybe more

No doubt she will - after all why wouldn't she, if you're prepared to go on paying for work she's choosing not to do?

As with the fretting over how to mention a "retainer" and her entitlement to SE furlough, I'm afraid you're overthinking massively about things which - in the nicest possible way - aren't really your concern. Why not trust her to sort her own affairs out, especially as she's under no obligation to go on working for you, now or ever?

What did she reply, OP?

Could you buy 'gift vouchers' for future hours? Maybe 50% of what you pay her monthly normally and then claim them in the future.
My hairdresser has been very pleased with this arrangement. I did offer it to the dog walker but she declined.

@ScottishStottie

If the cleaner has decided not to come when you would be happy to still have her working then no you dont have to pay her.

Maybe offer workarounds to being able to come to work, everyone out while she is there or something, but if she is choosing not to then she doesnt get paid.

This.

Good to see common sense reasserting itself with the voting - back in the spring these kind of threads were a competition for who could be the "kindest", with anyone who said "hang on a sec ..." slammed

We're paying ours, as we have through previous lockdowns - we're still getting paid, so she should be too (help for the self employed doesn't help her).

HavelockVetinari Presumably you are still being paid because you aren’t self employed. She chose to be self employed and has to deal with the risks of that, so no, she shouldn’t be getting paid if she isn’t working.

I budget to pay my cleaner 52 weeks per year so whilst I’m being paid normal I’ll pay her.

She’s very lovely and valuable to us. We’re not comfy having her here at the moment though so we’ll pay like we did last time.

We’ll assess again in Feb.

My cleaner will continue to come. If she decided not to, we wouldn't be paying her. If I decided not to have her, I'd either pay or expect her to ditch me for a client that would.

I think this is one of those Mumsnet anomalies. I don't believe in real life as many people paid their cleaners for so long during lockdown last time. I just don't know how people can afford to pay for something they're not getting.

Maybe because their income remained the same ?
March - July, my cleaner wasn't allowed to work. The £20 a week we spend wasn't going to change my life if I kept it, but I suspect it makes more of a dent in her budget if she doesn't get it. Obviously, considerably more so if other people she cleans for were also paying her.
As was discussed back in the Summer, many cleaners don't earn anywhere near enough to be paying tax and don't have accounts going back years. Many were not able to claim the SE's 'loss of earnings'.
I also think it is different - having a cleaner come into your house each week for a couple of years or more, is a very different relationship from having an electrician come to do a one off job in your home.

All that said, in the OP's position, I wouldn't be paying anything.
Her cleaner is able to come, but is choosing not to. Therefore the OP doesn't owe her anything.

Not earning enough to pay tax is not relevant for the Seiss - I don’t earn enough to pay tax and was able to claim the grants. Being a cleaner does not mean they are incapable of submitting self-assessment. My cleaner manages it.

Mine's still coming - texted to say if we were willing to have her she was very willing to come, so I practically bit her hand off!