To think that those people calling for the schools to shut should check their privilege

[berryfull]

It’s all very well and good to decide to keep your kids home or call for the schools to shut when you have enough space/have a garden/ have enough bedrooms/ have a home office/ can work from home/one parent doesn’t work/ you can work flexibly / your work can furlough you/ you have enough savings/ you have enough money/ you have WiFi / you have a device per child/ your children can read and write/ your children are independent/ your children are neurotypical/ your children don’t have disabilities/ you’re not scared of your partner/ you’re not scared of your children/ your mental health doesn’t make you a danger to your children/ yiu can cope with the stress/ your partner isn’t a danger to your children/ your health is good enough to allow you to look after your children/ your education level is sufficient for you to help educate your children you can feed your children throughout the day ..... etc etc

Stop presuming that all children will be safer at home. There are bigger and comparable dangers to the Covid that school keeps children safe from. And the vunerable ones are not being looked after.

Keep the schools open .... please!

I honestly do not want to go into more personal details so please stop asking me, but can some people please read the thread I’ve repeatedly linked to. Suffice to say I have 2 SEN kids who both have full time one to one support in school and full disability living allowance. Last lockdown we had no school, no respite, no social work, no therapies, no healthcare. We got a few phone calls from social worker and a few phone calls from school, mainly to check we were still alive and continue to confirm there was nothing they could do to help us. It’s really upsetting to continually have posters tell me that there are school places for those that need them. It’s just not true. And not just for disabled kids but for many other vunerable kids too for many of the reasons others have written in this thread.

But again I thank those who are making intelligent reasoned points . I am reading. And it’s all interesting and good learning that will hopefully help me to cope.

And count my blessings (my privilege)

(And obviously to volunteer with vunerable kids in my spare time)

@Maryann1975

As a childminder one of my very least vulnerable dc nearly became one during lockdown. His parents, one Having to work outside the home, the other with A more full on, but wfh job, in charge of the 3 year old. He was left with the tv and play station for 10 weeks, snacking on crap and trying to fight for attention with his dms job. That is far from ideal for any child, but for a 3 year old it’s diabolical. I reopened to him as soon as I was able. His parents were full of guilt, but they could do nothing differently (Not key workers and not by definition vulnerable at all). My own dc, one has has massive mental health issues and One is autistic. Lock down was hell. I’ve been told how selfish I am for wanting key worker places because if I don’t work, my cm parents Also can’t work (7 out of 8 families are key workers). We are lucky not to be on the breadline, so Privileged in a way, but honestly I’d have given every penny away for a school place (different school) in the last lockdown to try to salvage our family. Those I know who have shouted loudest for school closures generally have a SAHP, or Work very part time hours with a far more affluent partner or were completely furloughed last time. Some haven’t gone back to work yet, so their families have had the benefit of a SAHP with 80% of their pay still coming in.

This.

no mention in your post about safety of teachers

looking around for all the threads deeply concerned for the health of supermarket workers 2-3 weeks ago - you see any??

@DansMaPoche

no mention in your post about safety of teachers.

Why is the safety of teachers any more important than the safety of NHS staff and supermarket staff and policemen and anyone else in a public facing key worker role?

Of course it's not. But it's equally important! Schools staff have been given virtually no tools to protect them. Supermarkets have social distancing (in principal), face masks, ventilation, screens between them and the customer. Hospital staff have PPE, as much as possible, medical appointments are now online. Teachers should have the same sort of thought into their protections, but they've been completely discounted in the arguement about schools.

@FrippEnos

FractionalGains

They do now. They didn’t during the first wave.

They didn't at the start of the first wave, they conplained and threatened to walk out but various companies, schools and teachers made it for them.

What are you talking about? Teachers solved the PPE crisis? ICU staff threatened to strike until schools stepped in?

I am in favour of shutting the schools and have every sympathy with teachers, but I’m sick of people downplaying the risks other key workers face.

DansMaPoche

Why is the safety of teachers any more important than the safety of NHS staff and supermarket staff and policemen and anyone else in a public facing key worker role?

On a thread about keeping schools open (whatever the title) it should be obvious.

But spelling it out for you

If enough teachers are ill schools will close.

Does it have to be made any clearer?

@MrsHamlet I don't believe it is nonsense, but I'd love you to try and persuade me otherwise.

YABU

Automatically for ever uttering the 'privilege' phrase - which undermines anything else said, but not withstanding...

Its parents that decide to have children, and they evaluate their circumstances against the risks before having them. If there are any sacrifices to be made, it should be by those individual parents alone - its not up to any other member of society to support them in their choice of having children.

What you describe are the impacts that parents personally choose by having children. Clearly risks will crystalise for some and not for others, but ultimately each parent decided to take the risk and must live with both the joy, but also the consequences. Other parents will have made different choices when they felt their circumstances were right.

Your first 12 items are simply that some people earn less money than others - it's a personal choice about the circumstances in which to have children and of course circumstances may change, but it's their responsibility alone to resolve to meet their children's needs.

Given that elections take place at least every 5 years, you could never assume anything about schools being the same as when you decided to have children - it could be that every school place has to be paid for by parents, or that parents are mandated to help in schools 20% of the working week or every child gets an amazing school grant, or a pandemic causes schools to close or learning to move on-line, where parents must supply devices and internet - anything, it's still down to parents to manage the situation and ensure they provide for their children that they decided to have within the rules the rest of society makes.

If you choose to have children, you decide to take on the unconditional unlimited liability that comes with it - if you don't want that responsibility, don't have children. Others can choose to have sympathy, but also don't have to have sympathy - and either approach is fine; but nobody has to justify making a better life for their own family than others have done and choosing what is best for their family - "privileged" or not.

'...check their privilege'??

This is the first time I've seen this and I wish I hadn't. Is this the new 'snowflake' or 'Karen'?

Missing the point of the post because I couldn't be bothered to read beyond the title.

JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

I've also noticed that the biggest shouters of "close the schools" are those whose kids will still go into the hub schools. So their childcare is covered.

I don't think it's so much "check your privilege" more "I'm alright Jack".

This is so true! I have been reading a lot of these threads the past few days and agree 100% 👏👏

FractionalGains
What are you talking about?

Its your post that I am replying to, you figure it out.

Teachers solved the PPE crisis?

Not what I said but we certainly made hundreds of thousands of PPE in my group. (and you missed out companies)

ICU staff threatened to strike until schools stepped in?

Yes medical staff made noise about walking out due to unsafe conditions, or doesn't that suit your narrative?

Its a thread about schools. you could make a thread about nurses, doctors, police, shop workers id you wanted to.
But lets be honest its never the teachers or teachers supporters that bring up the other professions.

@foothtairy

YABU

Automatically for ever uttering the 'privilege' phrase - which undermines anything else said, but not withstanding...

Its parents that decide to have children, and they evaluate their circumstances against the risks before having them. If there are any sacrifices to be made, it should be by those individual parents alone - its not up to any other member of society to support them in their choice of having children.

What you describe are the impacts that parents personally choose by having children. Clearly risks will crystalise for some and not for others, but ultimately each parent decided to take the risk and must live with both the joy, but also the consequences. Other parents will have made different choices when they felt their circumstances were right.

Your first 12 items are simply that some people earn less money than others - it's a personal choice about the circumstances in which to have children and of course circumstances may change, but it's their responsibility alone to resolve to meet their children's needs.

Given that elections take place at least every 5 years, you could never assume anything about schools being the same as when you decided to have children - it could be that every school place has to be paid for by parents, or that parents are mandated to help in schools 20% of the working week or every child gets an amazing school grant, or a pandemic causes schools to close or learning to move on-line, where parents must supply devices and internet - anything, it's still down to parents to manage the situation and ensure they provide for their children that they decided to have within the rules the rest of society makes.

If you choose to have children, you decide to take on the unconditional unlimited liability that comes with it - if you don't want that responsibility, don't have children. Others can choose to have sympathy, but also don't have to have sympathy - and either approach is fine; but nobody has to justify making a better life for their own family than others have done and choosing what is best for their family - "privileged" or not.

This post is as nasty as it is ridiculous.

And I don’t have school age children, and have no skin in the game.

Ok, OP, no personal details, but what are your personal opinions on the vulnerable children who had multiple occasions of self isolation last term because schools had no funding or the guidance to keep them safer in school and who also had not been provided the funding to support them more at home because they had to self isolate, last term?

It was awful (and worse because they cannot even leave for daily exercise or fresh air) and yet those saying schools must be open at all costs were ignoring this.

If the government provided better funding and better guidance (in both in school and in case of remote support) right from the get go, do you think we would still be in this mess?
Do you not think that some of those who are are telling to ‘check your privilege’, might not be fighting in order to keep ^more children in school safely?

A union's job is to represent the interests of its members.
If I were an optician, and felt my workplace was unsafe, my union would be there to support me in refusing to go into work.
It's their role.
Incidentally, I had a contact lens check up before Christmas. Online. Because they're not seeing patients face to face.

I feel incredibly sad about the situation. No place is safe for anyone because of covid. No one regardless of your profession, age, sex, gender, culture or creed is safe from this bastard of a disease....it is indiscriminate in its onslaught of us. It mutated because it's only ambition is to survive and it will continue to mutate in an effort to survive until every last one of us is vaccinated. Teachers, police officers, doctors, engineers, retailers truck drivers, scientists, refuse collectors prime ministers, social workers, ALL OF US are in danger, and we continue to be in danger until we are all vaccinated. The teachers union are making a point about safety...but surely it applies to all professions? And if teachers are successful in asserting their human right to work in a safe environment, the same applies to all of us? So what happens then? Society comes to a screeching halt. No one there to uphold the law, no one thereto maintain telecommunications infrastructure (which supports your internet connection.) No one there to deliver your baby
No one there to safeguard a vulnerable child. No one there to deliver your food. No one there to stop the water leak or to put the fire out. No one there to teach your child. Where does it end? How long can we sustain it for before the corner stones of society begin to crumble? I'm worried about everyone, and it's making me angry...but we are taking our anger out on each other unfairly. I'm trying to bite my tongue, because it always reads like one profession has more of a right to safety over another....but we are all human and we are all equal. Everytime we leave the house and come into contact with someone else we are unsafe. We need to remember to treat each other with kindness, but we also need to recognise that covid wants every single one of us. We need to stand together for society and do our bit....together.

Check your privilege' is the most annoying term I've heard.

Same.

I have a disabled child, she is not classed as vulnerable. No SEN children are given places our primaries, vulnerable for my school means in danger at home. Stop assuming vulnerable kids are given school places, they are not.

During the Spring and Summer school closures, rates of child abuse, domestic abuse, child malnutrition and youth suicide spiralled (source UNICEF and NSPCC). But no-one seems to really care! Every time I raise this people start to make excuses, minimise it or sweep it under the rug. Just wait and see the replies to this. I care about children. I also care about teachers. Statistically children are at more risk though, when schools close, than teachers are (excepting CEV) when schools open. And vulnerable children don't have a voice. Or the option of retreating to a safe home. Not all abused children are in 'the system'. We all have a duty to protect them, schools, outside agencies, the general public. It's not someone else's job. Those baying for school closures need to realise this is the horrific situation for so many children in the UK. Schools may close, but we just cannot forget about the devastating consequences. Waiting for someone to say 'but what about the teachers?' and they do need better working conditions. That doesn't stop the child abuse though. We mustn't deny it. We must raise this constantly on behalf of those that can't.

@Maryann1975

As a childminder one of my very least vulnerable dc nearly became one during lockdown. His parents, one Having to work outside the home, the other with A more full on, but wfh job, in charge of the 3 year old. He was left with the tv and play station for 10 weeks, snacking on crap and trying to fight for attention with his dms job. That is far from ideal for any child, but for a 3 year old it’s diabolical. I reopened to him as soon as I was able. His parents were full of guilt, but they could do nothing differently (Not key workers and not by definition vulnerable at all). My own dc, one has has massive mental health issues and One is autistic. Lock down was hell. I’ve been told how selfish I am for wanting key worker places because if I don’t work, my cm parents Also can’t work (7 out of 8 families are key workers). We are lucky not to be on the breadline, so Privileged in a way, but honestly I’d have given every penny away for a school place (different school) in the last lockdown to try to salvage our family. Those I know who have shouted loudest for school closures generally have a SAHP, or Work very part time hours with a far more affluent partner or were completely furloughed last time. Some haven’t gone back to work yet, so their families have had the benefit of a SAHP with 80% of their pay still coming in.

This.

I have a colleague whose 2yo nearly fell out of a first floor window as he was unsupervised when she was on a conference call. No, schools aren’t childcare, but that’s part of the role they play and have done for decades. The fact children are otherwise engaged at school has allowed both parents to work (and support the economy by paying tax) and having that pulled out from under you whilst being expected to carry on ‘business as usual’ is exhausting at best and dangerous at worst.

The teachers union are making a point about safety...but surely it applies to all professions?

What other professions are in the same position

1% for Gav/DfE ... Says it all really

Im and OT I had to crack on and have been in work since the first lockdown. I am in paediatrics. My mate works in Aldi. Teachers need to crack on like we all do they are not an elite.

Completely agree OP

What are you talking about? Teachers solved the PPE crisis? ICU staff threatened to strike until schools stepped in?

Sorry just want to check, are you denying schools donated equipment to hospitals, GPS and pharmacies in the first lockdown (science safety goggles, making masks, visors and scrubs just as an example) and are you denying NHS staff have balloted to strike during this pandemic?

@berryfull we had the same experience as did countless others who receive full DLA and carers allowance too. Vulnerable is only those who are in danger or in care at our school.