To think that those people calling for the schools to shut should check their privilege

[berryfull]

It’s all very well and good to decide to keep your kids home or call for the schools to shut when you have enough space/have a garden/ have enough bedrooms/ have a home office/ can work from home/one parent doesn’t work/ you can work flexibly / your work can furlough you/ you have enough savings/ you have enough money/ you have WiFi / you have a device per child/ your children can read and write/ your children are independent/ your children are neurotypical/ your children don’t have disabilities/ you’re not scared of your partner/ you’re not scared of your children/ your mental health doesn’t make you a danger to your children/ yiu can cope with the stress/ your partner isn’t a danger to your children/ your health is good enough to allow you to look after your children/ your education level is sufficient for you to help educate your children you can feed your children throughout the day ..... etc etc

Stop presuming that all children will be safer at home. There are bigger and comparable dangers to the Covid that school keeps children safe from. And the vunerable ones are not being looked after.

Keep the schools open .... please!

I home educate my kids. We love it. There are resources out there if you struggle with kids at home. They can be hard to find and they don’t shout about them.

There are many difficult home life situations occurring all over the UK, with that I totally agree, but why should it fall to schools (whose job it is to educate) to provide the support for these social issues-thereby endangering themselves, their own household and the households of the 30+ children they are crammed into a classroom with all day with no PPE. I’m not saying I have the answers, but I am saying that when teachers chose the profession it was to educate young minds- not to do this.

Just spoke to a friend who has a vulnerable DD, she self harms to an alarming degree (knockers her head against the wall until unconscious)

The only place she does not do this is school

They have barely made it through the holidays, Social Services, Psychiatrists all involved but can do nothing

School is their lifeline, their one chance of normality and routine

The kid I know who is a sole carer for his alcoholic dad also desperately needs school back in his life

I agree with you OP but lots of people haven’t a clue (and there is no such thing as “volunteering for vulnerable kids” whoever thought that up)

@Saylethewayles

We’re not calling for hospitals to close!

Firstly, hospitals are more essential than school

Secondly, people who work in hospitals have full PPE and access to regular testing

HTH

They do now. They didn’t during the first wave.

@SatishTheCat

It’s going to be horrible for a time, whether schools close or not. None of this is ideal. Rather than sniping at other parents, hold the government to account for their appalling management of this pandemic.

Actually I think the government have done a fairly good job overall. Everyone is wise in hindsight.

I totally agree with you. Financially we are in a really precarious position right now due to Covid. Having the children at home costs me a fortune as opposed to having them at school (think electricity and food). I am also no teacher and our house is tiny. My job is not furlough worthy, I’m expected to be in work. If I don’t go to work I will not be paid I’m classed as a key worker but low paid. It irritates me when people say lockdown for weeks. These people are clearly not financially vulnerable or living in tiny houses.

I agree OP. If only people could see some of the poor little mites I know of, cooped up in tiny flats with a barely literate mum and the new boyfriend in tow
That is really sad. I know the threshold can be high for SS involvement lots of poor mites are neglected along the way, surely if teachers are aware it is there only meal SS would step in? Maybe I'm being naive I should know better some folk around here drag the DC up too.

FractionalGains

They do now. They didn’t during the first wave.

They didn't at the start of the first wave, they conplained and threatened to walk out but various companies, schools and teachers made it for them.

I have checked my privilege, and whilst it will be really, really hard to manage (and the responsibility for child care will fall entirely on DH who is also the higher earner) I still think it should be done.

[quote alwieba]@berryfull

"Where was the huge spike in Covid cases that happened when the schools reopened?"

[/quote]
Bravo! Exactly. The rise started in September.

When schools went back

The point where I agree with you @TinyTroubleMaker is not so much about the scrabble for the supermarket two weeks ago, but why on Thursday families of 4/5 were being allowed in together. Wholly unnecessary and in most cases the 2/3 DC would have been better off feeding the ducks at the park. Unbelievable.

I think if you feel so strongly that schools aren't safe keep your dc at home then , nobody's stopping you who cares about a fine if you feel it's not safe .
Stop with the demanding schools shut . Some of us would like to send out dc to school for many different reasons.
Everyone has different circumstances .

As a childminder one of my very least vulnerable dc nearly became one during lockdown. His parents, one Having to work outside the home, the other with A more full on, but wfh job, in charge of the 3 year old. He was left with the tv and play station for 10 weeks, snacking on crap and trying to fight for attention with his dms job. That is far from ideal for any child, but for a 3 year old it’s diabolical. I reopened to him as soon as I was able. His parents were full of guilt, but they could do nothing differently (Not key workers and not by definition vulnerable at all).
My own dc, one has has massive mental health issues and One is autistic. Lock down was hell. I’ve been told how selfish I am for wanting key worker places because if I don’t work, my cm parents Also can’t work (7 out of 8 families are key workers).
We are lucky not to be on the breadline, so Privileged in a way, but honestly I’d have given every penny away for a school place (different school) in the last lockdown to try to salvage our family. Those I know who have shouted loudest for school closures generally have a SAHP, or Work very part time hours with a far more affluent partner or were completely furloughed last time. Some haven’t gone back to work yet, so their families have had the benefit of a SAHP with 80% of their pay still coming in.

islockdownoveryet

Because it isn't my child I'm worried about but the wider population. Me keeping my child at home only protects my child and I'm not that selfish.

I have really struggled with this situation like a lot of people, so I have been trying to do practical things. For instance, local to me, a charity is refurbishing donated laptops and tablets for schools to give to families who need them for free, and they have put another call out for laptops people no longer need. If this is happening in your area and you can support it by donating, volunteering etc it will help.

It will also help if you can publicize support that is available currently, for instance Childline, domestic abuse support helplines, how to access mental health services in your neighbourhood, on lamp posts and notice boards, in school newsletters, on social media. The usual places you see this support advertised such as doctors surgeries or dentists waiting rooms are currently not very accessible.

It's not a popular MN opinion you express.
MN demographics tend to be on the priviledged side - not all but many.
The opinion on here is more radical and more hysterical for closures than in real life.

Good luck with the flaming!

@Buddytheelf85

Stop presuming that the vunerable children are being looked after, they are not!

This pisses me off when people presume this. No one is going to say "My husband is a raging alcoholic and we physically abuse our child so can they go to the hub school please".

Yes, I agree with this. People say ‘the vulnerable children get school places’ to make themselves feel better about it but it just isn’t true.

I think back to my own childhood - from the outside a lovely middle class family, from the inside a dictatorship ruled by a physically abusive alcoholic. I loved school, it was safety for 8 hours a day. Noone pinned me up against a wall and told me I’d taste the blood as they knocked my teeth out.

I shudder to think of what would have happened if Covid had happened when I was a teenager.

I can see the arguments for and against closing schools and ultimately the science must prevail. But I agree with the OP and other posters - I wish people would be honest with themselves about the true impact of it rather than just saying ‘vulnerable children get a school place’. Vulnerability takes many forms and it’s frequently not visible.

Well said OP

A case of dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t 😳

If you think we have problems now, wait till the cost to the economy comes home to roost, then listen to the moans

If the schools shut, that will have an impact on parents I.e. child care etc

No win situation

As someone above mentioned, the NHS is not going to save everyone, stark reality unfortunately and every life is important but only so much can be done with what resources they have

Reading the boards and news, I get the impression that it is a UK problem only!

Somehow, I don’t think so

no mention in your post about safety of teachers.

Why is the safety of teachers any more important than the safety of NHS staff and supermarket staff and policemen and anyone else in a public facing key worker role?

Where were all the people now clamouring for school closures, 2 weeks ago? When half the adults in the country were crawling over each other to grab goose fat and a tin of biscuits? Why were there no threads and yelling about closing the supermarkets, or as a minimum only letting people in with strong health and safety measures, and only for essentials?

Yes, I’ve been wondering this too! The announcement about the highly transmissible new strain was on December 23rd I believe. I wonder how many of those now insisting they’re terrified immediately cancelled all their Christmas plans, avoided all festive shopping and saw no one over the holidays? Outside of Tier 4, where mixing was officially banned, I imagine many of those ‘terrified’ people still happily saw family and friends. So why all the drama and panic now that the celebrations are over and return to work is imminent?

I'm sort of with you OP.

My DS is vulnerable due to being autistic. He wasn't in school during the last lockdown. We waited months upon months for an additional support worker, he spent an hour in school twice a week during those months. I cannot bear him to miss anymore school than he already has. I cannot teach him at home, school is for teaching and his teachers are for teaching. No amount of reasoning and discussing and explaining the situation to him would change that. We had meltdowns and violent outbursts every single day because mummy isn't a teacher, his teacher is the teacher. Our living room isnt for school work, school is for school work. I tried my bloody hardest but home learning did not work and he missed out greatly, not only on the learning but on his social skills too. I cant do it again and thankfully he now has a place at school for this lockdown.

That being said, I feel greatly sorry for the teachers at having to be put in this situation. Whether it be prioritising teachers for vaccinating or giving them full PPE, they deserve to be protected as much as the rest of us.

Kids can't keep missing school and teachers can't keep having to put themselves at risk. I don't know what the answer is.

@Almostslimjim

islockdownoveryet

Because it isn't my child I'm worried about but the wider population. Me keeping my child at home only protects my child and I'm not that selfish.

Like I said in my post everyone has different circumstances and they are not selfish. Many people have given various reasons on this thread . Can you not just except it . Like i said keep you dc at home but don't tell others what they should and shouldn't do . Many children absolutely need to be in school mine included .

@AllesAusLiebe

Completely agree, op. It's a decision driven by unions with their own political agenda. I can't believe how many people are falling for it and genuinely believe that this is about safety.

Nonsense.

Most the kids you’ve described would be allowed in school as vulnerable children.

@LobotheBotanist

Just spoke to a friend who has a vulnerable DD, she self harms to an alarming degree (knockers her head against the wall until unconscious)

The only place she does not do this is school

They have barely made it through the holidays, Social Services, Psychiatrists all involved but can do nothing

School is their lifeline, their one chance of normality and routine

The kid I know who is a sole carer for his alcoholic dad also desperately needs school back in his life

I agree with you OP but lots of people haven’t a clue (and there is no such thing as “volunteering for vulnerable kids” whoever thought that up)

There are a lot of people that are really struggling in many ways that many on here have no idea about. It feels like many live in a bubble and covid dominates because they have nothing else to worry about.
Good luck to your friend. SEN children have really been badly affected and many let down.