Should I be worried about my DS?

[Concerneduser]

Not strictly an AIBU but I'm interested in the quick responses in voting as well as anybody who can give advice.

My DS is 13 and I've had concerns on/off over the years, i suppose I thought he would grow out of things but now he's a teenager I'm thinking maybe something isn't right and regretting not doing something about it sooner.
I've had autism/adhd concerns over the years (adhd more so by family members who would say it as he was very hyperactive as a child etc) but I've read up on alot of things and there is crossover between the 2 conditions so maybe he has one or the other or possibly none I really dont know.
Anyway my main concerns at the min are about his eating
•Eating, he's a massively messy eater, uses fingers inappropriately, doesn't use a knife and fork in the correct way and gets it everywhere like a 1 year old would.
• He gets food around his face like a child does with anything he eats, but doesn't realise and doesn't wipe it off until I see it and mention it.
• If he ever does wash his hands/face after eating he just wipes it straight onto the tea towel without washing them under water first and obviously the tea towel is filthy.
All of this I have been telling him since he was small to do or not to do and he still isn't getting it. That's not normal is it? I used to think he was just being naughty or lazy but a 13 year old shouldn't still be doing all that surely?

I have other concerns relating to ASD/ADHD and am happy to list them if anybody wants a fuller picture but I dont want to make this a massive opening post.

AIBU to be worried this isn't normal behaviour?

Pretty normal behaviour for a teenage boy.
They do improve when they become interested in the opposite sex. My house generally smells like the men’s fragrance dept in the local dept store each morning now that DS has discovered soap again. Spends hours in the shower and empties half a can of deodorant daily. They really do go from one extreme to another.
Every mother of a teenage boys complains of their lack of basic hygiene skills regardless of how often they are told. DS still hasn’t got the hang of lifting a toilet lid.

My adhd son is like this. He eats like a caveman and he's adult now. My autistic teenage son is the opposite and hates being messy or having a messy face or hands, he was like this from being a toddler. I'm adhd and autistic, so I inadvertently make a mess, but try to clean up appropriately afterwards, I wouldn't just wipe face on a tea towel. I often have spills and crumbs on my top though. I would also rather eat with my hands, but resist the urge unless I think I can get away with it.

My son is autistic and often eats with his hands, fine with chips, but not great with greasy or messy things! He will use cutlery too, but he needs to be reminded. I'm honestly not sure if it's down to autism or laziness, as he's still a teenager after all!

If you have other concerns I think it wouldn't do any harm to ask for some help/input from a professional. But on those two things alone, I wouldn't be overly worried, they don't sound outwith the realms of "usual teenager".

So the only thing concerning you is the fact that he’s a messy eater? I must let my ASD son know he should be making a mess when he eats.....

He sounds like a kid with no table manners. Not a asd or adhd kid op...

It's not the classic concern people tend to have about ASD. Perhaps if you said some of the other things you've noticed?

Dyspraxia is another condition which causes lack of organisation/thinking through tasks.

@justlikestitch it's not my only concerns I just didn't want to create a massive opening post as I know it puts people off when there is so much to read. I'm no expert on asd or ADHD only what I've read etc so I dont mean to come across as rude. I'm just wondering if the messy eating is part of the bigger picture.
I will update with my other concerns in a few I'm just off out at the min.

Does he have difficulty with being messy/ sloppy/ clumsy or uncoordinated at other times? The unable to eat without making a mess part could be a sign of something like dyspraxia, equally not recognising when his face is dirty could be a sign of sensory processing disorder (SPD).

What are your other concerns? If you Google you can generally find checklists of symptoms/ signs for different conditions, it might be worth having a look at them and seeing if any seem to match your DS.

Ok so my other concerns are,

He was late to talk, he was 22/23 months before he said his first few words, but he did seem to catch up and speech is normal now.
As a toddler he was obsessive with spinning wheels on his toy cars, to the point me & family used to wonder about it but to be honest I didn't think of it on it's own as anything.
He used to fixate on certain films and we had to watch them over and over for a few months until the next one etc.
He can talk about a film or something he is interested in for ages (to me)
I came across the term of finger posturing a few years back and realised he does this, alot as a younger child but I see him doing it now too.
He was very energetic as a child (hence my family mentioning adhd) which I know is normal in many children but it was to the extreme sometimes.
He also used to make strange/silly noises when playing etc which I've read can be seen in asd. He still does this to an extent.
He has sensory issues over food, as a toddler I thought it was just fussiness but he genuinely cannot tolerate certain smells and textures and has a very bland diet.
His communication to everyone else is poor, he gives yes/no answers when spoken to but doesnt engage in back and forth chat with anybody else other than me or his best friend. His school reports since he started primary school have always said he is quiet and struggles in large groups. He is massively distracted easily and often used to complete his work with a small group of other students in a smaller classroom as he would work better this way.
He's had a few friends over the years but only ever 1 at a time, he doesnt have a large group of friends.
He struggles with instructions and cannot see things when they are right infront of him, for example he'll ask where the milk is and its directly infront of him but a pack of yogurts might be infront of them and he doesnt think to look beyond them, if its not at the front he doesnt see it. And I can ask him to fetch me something from a certain drawer and he will open it glance on top and declare it isn't there, he doesnt think to look under things. (This im aware is a common Male problem 🤣 but after years of me saying can you look under things before you declare is isn't there just arent sinking in.)
He lacks awareness with personal space, he always stands way too close to people and bumps into me constantly when walking as he is so close to me. He often leans into me to talk like you would if you were whispering something but he's talking normally.

I will add more if I think of anything, I'm not saying all of these are symptoms of asd/adhd but it's just a list of my concerns. I guess alot of it I put down to age and immaturity but the older he gets the more I realise he's different to others.
School have never mentioned anything other than what I've said above but equally I've never raised my concerns with them.

Everything in your last post screams ASD to me. It describes my son perfectly. He has ASD (Aspergers) ADHD, Dyspraxia and Dyslexia.

Same with the eating. He's 15 and gets food all over his face at every meal. He is in mainstream school but has 1:1 LSA support. One of his LSAs keeps baby wipes in her bag and wipes his face for him after lunch (he only has sandwiches but still gets a messy face!)

And yes, spinning things was/is an obsession. I go to a ASD group where there is an electric train set and the boys all crouch down, head on one side watching the wheels spin!

Not being able to follow instructions is definitely my son and (for him) ASD. He can only process one instruction at a time, so "go to the kitchen and get your bag" would result in him standing in the kitchen not knowing what he was doing there (and he would start to spin on the spot instead).

My son understands personal space but my daughter doesn't. Walking down a straight path she eventually walks into me. I just change sides until she starts walking into me in the other direction. Anyone watching would see a very strange dance! Yeah, my daughter is ASD too..

Sorry, meant to say not processing more than one instruction (according to the Dr) is ADHD (Hes actually got ADD - the same although without the hyperactivity element but that's a less known term so we don't tend to use it. That's also why no one picked it up - everyone looks for the hyperactivity element but that's only a small part and isn't always there)

Forgot to say my ASD daughter is the opposite of my son when it comes to eating- she eats crisps with chopsticks as she hates the feeling of greasy fingers!

@redrise thank you for your comments.
My DS is very similar to what you describe (i must admit it has driven me mad over the years because it seems like he's deliberately trying to wind me up or not listen!) but yes if i tell him to just go and get ready he is unsure of what to do, i have to individually say go get dressed, brush teeth etc and he requires further prompting at times. (The exception being school days, he has a routine of setting his alarm and then doing breakfast, getting dressed, brushing teeth etc in the same order) on a weekend/school holiday if i asked him to get ready he would just get dressed and think he was done.
I ask him to tidy his room and he will look around pick up a crisp packet or something put it in the bin and think he's done. I have to tell him tidying a room means making bed, checking for all rubbish, taking plates/cups down etc. And i have to tell him this everytime.

I think spending much more time with him over lockdown is highlighting everything to me, but i dont even know where to start, is diagnosing ASD/ADHD etc common in older children, i know its stupid and selfish of me but part of me thinks if he was diagnosed that they'd judge me and think why on earth did she not do anything sooner. Despite what i've described he seems to 'blend' in with everybody else in school, although i would certainly call him quirky.

No one will judge you. High Functioning autism is very hard to spot and often goes unnoticed. It became obvious in my children towards the end of year 6 but we didn't get either of them diagnosed until they were 13.

The bedroom tidying is the same here with my son. If I told him to tidy his room he wouldn't have a clue where to start. Instead I tidy with him so he hopefully learns by doing. For example I say "you find all the dirty washing and out it in a pile while I put these books away".

"Quirky" is the word EVERY teacher used at every parent's evening since year R to describe my son!

It's great your son is doing well socially at school. I think that's why so many people miss the signs. The SENCO at my son's primary school said he wasn't autistic because he had a great sense of humour and was very sociable. He now has a diagnosis and is in a special school.

How is your son academically? Is he okay focusing in class? Do you think he might need an EHCP/support?

So much of what you say is my DS, (14). I suspect ASD. Add to mine stressy, anxious about social events, very messy, still very tactile, blu tac, gum etc. Fixates on right and wrong & who is to blame. Can't see tasks through - this drives me to despair. More than the average messy boy.

Have you considered providing napkins rather than expecting your son to wash and dry himself on a tea towel?

@choli There are napkins available if he chooses to use them, i ask him to wash his hands after mealtimes if he has used his fingers which is alot of the time and the kitchen is closest so he often heads into there and instead of washing his hands under water and using a napkin/wipe for his face he just grabs the tea towel and uses that to wipe his hands and sometimes face.
If he is upstairs he will do the same in the bathroom and i find the bathroom towel dirty. I have been telling him for years to wash with water first.

@Tinythumbelina my DS also is very anxious about things too. Have you started the process of a diagnosis?

@redrise thank you for your kind words.
Academically he is behind on several subjects especially maths, he learns the same thing again and again but forgets it. He is in the bottom sets for his classes and often refers to himself as being stupid (i dont think it helps his best friend is academically the opposite and is very very clever) of course i reassure him that he isnt stupid.

In primary school the teacher used to often send him to work in another room with a few select others as she said in the normal classroom he wouldn't achieve much when given a task but in a smaller setting he got the work done much easier. He is very easily distracted when it comes to schoolwork, ive sat and done homework with him and literally anything that could distract him does.
I worry for his gcse's as he failed his SATS, which i know isn't a big deal but he was crushed when he failed them.

He benefits massively from 1-1 teaching and in the normal classes i dont think he is taking in what the teacher says, he will come home with homework that says in todays lesson we did this and the homework is based on that but he will be adamant that they didn't do anything to do with it in the lesson.

@Concerneduser The poor lad. If he's struggling at school (and it's obviously affecting his self esteem as well as his grades) I would suggest a diagnosis and a request for an EHCP (Educational Health Care Plan) ASAP. It won't be quick though. Unless you have the funds for a private ASD / ADHD diagnosis (we needed my daughter's one done quickly (two weeks it took!) and it cost £800 but you may find cheaper) the waiting list here is 18 months.

The EHCP can be started without one but it will be much easier if you have that diagnosis. The EHCP is supposed to take 20 weeks but can take longer and the local authority will try and fob you off. The keys is to do as much research as you possibly can and go full on Tiger Mum! There are fantastic charities that can help - IPSEA and SOS-SEN. If you trust the school they can do it but our school messed up badly with my son's so I did my daughter's one myself and it was much quicker (and easier).

It's tough but so worth it in the end. My son is in a mainstream school with full 1:1 support and he's thriving. He's gone from very poor attendance and totally unable to focus in class to being on target for great GSCE grades.

Hang on in there. It's very tough being mum of ASD kids. (Although I wouldn't change it for the world - I love my quirky kids!). Try joining your local National Autistic Society Facebook group for advice and support from other parents. Good luck xx

Me again! Forgot to say - the maths thing is typical of my son too. He is very intelligent but has such poor memory he is 15 and still doesn't know his times tables (and probably never will)

Your son sounds exactly like my son who is 15 now. He's been diagnosed with Dyspraxia, ADHD and sensory processing issues. He also has a specific learning disability. He uses a laptop to complete all his work in school as his fine motor skills are so poor you can't read his handwriting (he can't even read his handwriting) he's intelligent though and if a subject interests him, he will learn everything about it. You can't ask him to do more than one thing at once though as he can't process THAT information 😂

As well as looking at ADHD etc it might be worth asking your GP to refer for a dyspraxia assessment - that is a different type of diagnosis. Quite a few of the traits in your later posts sound a bit like my DD. It might also be a reason for not doing so well at school as those with dyspraxia tend to think and process differently and do less well. One thing that is worth your looking at at home is how he works when alone - DD was 14 before we realised that she needs to process and read aloud in order to take anything in and so having to work in silence in class/exams wasn't helpful. Also perhaps try cooking with him - can he then tell you what he did - DD can't do something and then remember it so practical lessons were a nightmare - we got the teacher to let her watch a video of experiments in the corner of the lab whilst the rest of the class did it as then she could take it in. Anything like this that you can observe now will help when talking to SENCO/specialists.