Why won't the government insist that children wear masks at school?

[cansu]

I am a teacher and I want to be at work. I hate remote learning. However I am more worried now than I have ever been about covid. I really wish that we could see the govmt really try much harder to make school safer and really listen to staff.
I do not understand why we are so reluctant to ensure the use of masks in school environments and I include primary in this.
All children, except for those whose special needs prevent it, wear a mask in school lessons and in all communal areas inside. No mask = no school. If parents send their child in without a mask, they are sent home. If pupils refuse to wear them, they are sent home.

That study, which has not yet been peer reviewed and is based on self reports by families who feel that mask wearing has had negative effects on their children, concludes that:

-A certain percentage of children and adolescents have non-negligible complaints when wearing the mask. These children should not be stigmatized.

- This worldwide first registry on side effects of the mask reflects the spectrum of symptoms in children and adolescents.

- A precise benefit-risk analysis is urgently required. The occurrence of reported side effects in children due to wearing the masks must be taken seriously and requires a precise clarification of the accompanying health circumstances, the situation of wearing the mask (duration, breaks and mask type) and the school situation.

This is hardly evidence that "masks harm children" , ffs.

My post got cut off. I meant to say : and the teachers too.

Fully agree with you, OP.

By definition, the type of person uploading their own findings about their own child to such a research set up is always going to turn out that kind of result.
60% of the kids were irritable.
That's not science, is it?
That's kids who are living through a global pandemic and have seen their world turned upside down. At the end of a school day. Who presumably get home to be quizzed by their parents so they can upload their views onto the study.

I'll stick with the scientific proof that masks are a PITA and life would be better without them but they actually work.

Or I'll tell my dentist tomorrow morning to immediately remove his or his mummy will have to upload his observed irritability onto some pseudo science study.

Are masks enough to be a reasonable adjustment?

What else would it take? Does anyone with a union know the criteria, is there criteria for above?

Slightly adjacent to topic but have been thinking about the walk out

@unmarkedbythat

That study, which has not yet been peer reviewed and is based on self reports by families who feel that mask wearing has had negative effects on their children, concludes that:

-A certain percentage of children and adolescents have non-negligible complaints when wearing the mask. These children should not be stigmatized.

- This worldwide first registry on side effects of the mask reflects the spectrum of symptoms in children and adolescents.

- A precise benefit-risk analysis is urgently required. The occurrence of reported side effects in children due to wearing the masks must be taken seriously and requires a precise clarification of the accompanying health circumstances, the situation of wearing the mask (duration, breaks and mask type) and the school situation.

This is hardly evidence that "masks harm children" , ffs.

Quite You can always tell the agenda heavy posters when (presumably after a quick Google) they come up with links to some utter wishy washy bollocks like that one.

I absolutely guarantee that none of the parents who took part in that study or the person who posted here it would take a medication that had been studied in a self reported non peer reviewed study.

Because it isn't fucking hard to find 25000 parents to fill out surveys saying how their poor children hate masks and are unhappy (nothing to do with their life changing of course)

Jesus there's probably that many on mumsnet alone. Projecting their anger and frustration onto small bits of cloth that are mildly inconvenient but far more comfortable than the wrong pair of heels.

So a survey that parents were made aware of that is around the impact of children wearing masks

And who do you think would bother with the survey those that don’t give it much thought and just get on with things or those that are against wearing masks or have a child/children that struggles with wearing a mask

Scotland school here, secondary age children have to wear a mask in our school. Thought it was commonplace.

Because there is plenty of research that shows that masks do not prevent or even reduce infection but leads people to think that masks make them ‘safe’.
The reason the gvt made them mandatory in shops was not because they work, but to encourage the people they had terrified into staying indoors to go out and spend again.
But it backfired and just made the hard-of -thinking push the agenda that masks are a preventive measure.

Personally I cannot see how primary age children can wear masks particularly the younger ones. Dd has worn a mask out and about but she fiddles with it and takes it off - not ideal. Imagine keeping on top of up to 30 masks in primary age children. Secondary school children might be more able to do so. I just don’t think it would be right for young children to wear a mask all day. I totally get your concern though.

I wouldn’t even get one on my son. He has additional needs.

@Starry4120

Personally I cannot see how primary age children can wear masks particularly the younger ones. Dd has worn a mask out and about but she fiddles with it and takes it off - not ideal. Imagine keeping on top of up to 30 masks in primary age children. Secondary school children might be more able to do so. I just don’t think it would be right for young children to wear a mask all day. I totally get your concern though.

I wouldn’t even get one on my son. He has additional needs.

Luckily "personally, I" proves nothing.

They seem to manage ok in other countries don’t they?

Key safety points

We expect the following to be in place in all education workplaces if and when they admit students:

a review of all risk assessments in the light of the much higher transmission of the new variant;
social distancing of 1 metre between pupils in all schools and colleges to replace the current practice of cohort distancing which allows whole year groups to mix without any social distancing;
masks to be worn by pupils and staff in secondary school classrooms and colleges;
school and college staff to be made a top priority for vaccination - along with health care staff and starting with the most vulnerable; and
until vaccinated, Clinically Extremely Vulnerable staff and women in the third trimester of pregnancy to work from home, supporting students who are at home.

This is from NEU which doesn’t mention primary
I’m not sure how I feel on it. The 1m distance may well exclude non KW children and I’d prefer them in with a mask than not

My daughter is 6, she would wear a mask, honestly though it wouldn't be done properly. She would be playing with it, moving it around, touching it, certainly wouldn't remember to change it regularly.

I'm just not convinced that primary age children would be able to wear masks in a way that effective in actually preventing transmission.

A good parents always priorities their kids, and that is what a lot of parents will be doing when they say they won't let them wear a mask.

A good parent always prioritizes their kids, apparently. I must have been going so, so, so wrong as a parent to teach my children that all humans are born equal, that although they are special to me they’re not more deserving than any other child on the planet, and that being respectful and considerate to others is a bare minimum of living in a happy society.

This attitude from this PP is why the UK’s cases are out of control. The absolute epitome of selfishness.

The children in my lower primary class love wearing masks (they are used to it in shops etc)! and even asked to swap their fun ones for the blue ones all the adults wear.

At secondary school the children wear masks when not actually in lessons but there are several who are exempt which is why it probably won't work.
I have tried a few different masks for my daughter but she screams and pulls them off, she hates anything touching her face.
However she can cope in a mainstream school. I just think if they are wearing masks all the time it'll mark out those children who are different.
The real problem is that the government despite claiming education is important have not spent enough money on it for years. So they certainly aren't going to spend money on safety measures. I dislike the idea of blaming the government for everything but they have neglected education for years.

I am a parent of a child with SN who NEEDS school. She will be distraught if she can't access school. I love being a teacher; I prefer being in the classroom. I would like parents to stop for a moment thinking about what they would like and think is the nicest and best for their children and think about the school system as a whole in an unusual and very difficult situation where an illness which can lead to disability, death and severe illness for some is preventing schools from fully opening. I have said countless times:

1. Masks are uncomfortable to wear
2. It is harder to hear and understand people.
3. People with special needs may not be able to comply.
4. Children will need help to use them appropriately.

However, they could enable:

1. Schools to open fully to all children.
2. Staff will at least be marginally protected from aerosol transmission in enclosed areas of 30 children.
3. It could prevent or help to prevent bubbles closing and transmission in the community.

If people can't get this; I genuinely have nothing more to add.

@EmmanuelleMakro could you post any of those studies here perhaps? I couldn't find anything (could only find the opposite) but am always happy to be proved wrong. And if masks don't prevent transmission then it would make things easier for many of the other posters on here too.

So @cansu what you are saying is that schools should open and teachers and children shouldn't wear masks but it would be ok? By setting up bubbles of 30 children in classrooms?

Or that maybe the ones that want to can wear masks and it would all be fine? Because the ones that opt out would magically be exempt from passing it on?

What I am saying is that children should wear masks as should teachers. The only children who shouldn't should be those who are exempt for genuine medical or special needs.

In special schools or schools where they have children who can't wear a mask, they should be in smaller groups with much greater social distancing.

Children should be provided masks by their parents or the government. Schools and teachers should be strict about mask wearing and care / use of masks.

Parents and children who won't do this should be asked to stay at home until they can comply.

Ok well that wasn't clear. I totally agree with that.

@Vanillaradio

I don't think it will be effective with younger primary school children. They will exchange masks, pull them down, lose the masks half way through the day and it would be a complete nightmare to enforce. Also how would you police exemptions? Presumably if a parent said their child was exempt (asthma, severe excema worsened by mask etc) the school would have to take their word for it.

Yet as I understand it, every other European country's primary aged children are managing to do it. From 6 years old, mainland European children are managing to wear masks in school. I'm sure the UK's children aren't actually inferior to them.

@Canuckduck

We’re in Ontario, Canada and all school children have been wearing them here this year from junior kindergarten (age 3/4) and up all year. Exceptions made for children with special needs. I don’t think they wear them perfectly and they do have breaks for eating, outdoor time etc but overall it seems to work.

There have been minimal outbreaks in schools and they have mainly been contained to 2-3 staff / children. Most children have adapted to it.

Obviously it’s not ideal and no one wants it but in person education is important. Next year we’ll hopefully be back to normal!

+1 and also in Ontario. Zero cases in our school although low case numbers in schools in our health region overall. DC doesn’t like masks, doesn’t like social distancing but is more than happy to comply if it means school, friends, some kind of normal where other people are and things can happen. So overall, happy to wear a mask if it gives access to school and friends. That said, some of the larger cities and high population density areas are now experiencing increasing cases so the province is under lockdown. Yet, the last six months gave us some freedom and just trying to make the most of what we have. I am really hoping that we can soon ease lockdown at least for school to resume as it offers so much to the young population. Unfortunately increasing numbers means that’s probably a while off.

That said, some of the larger cities and high population density areas are now experiencing increasing cases so the province is under lockdown. Yet, the last six months gave us some freedom and just trying to make the most of what we have. I am really hoping that we can soon ease lockdown at least for school to resume

What does a lockdown look like where you are? What closes and what restrictions do people have? Are schools open for critical workers?

Also-what sort of rates per 100,000 triggered the lockdown?

Sorry for all of the questions, I’m just keen to know how it’s looking there! Many thanks