Why won't the government insist that children wear masks at school?

[cansu]

I am a teacher and I want to be at work. I hate remote learning. However I am more worried now than I have ever been about covid. I really wish that we could see the govmt really try much harder to make school safer and really listen to staff.
I do not understand why we are so reluctant to ensure the use of masks in school environments and I include primary in this.
All children, except for those whose special needs prevent it, wear a mask in school lessons and in all communal areas inside. No mask = no school. If parents send their child in without a mask, they are sent home. If pupils refuse to wear them, they are sent home.

Let me tell you about my experience with DC who have to wear a mask all day in school from age 6 upwards at their school in france.

Since May 2020, all secondary pupils have had to wear them all day at school including outside at break time. Since the beginning of November 2020, all primary pupils over 6 have had to wear a mask all day at school including outside at break time.

The senior and junior school my DC go to have had plenty of cases and so too have the parents. I also know of many cases amongst children and their families from other schools in other parts of the city. In fact on November 6th France declared a record 86,000 cases. However, they have not had to close any classes or year groups because of the current French guidelines which state that you will not be considered a close contact of a positive case if you have not spent longer than 15 minutes with the positive person unmasked. So, guess what....No pupils spend any longer than 15 minutes out of their mask all day, even during their closely timed lunch times! It’s an absolute joke and the masks don’t appear to make much of a difference to virus spread in schools, it’s just that the figures look good because they don’t need to close any schools or classes. The only kids that have to isolate are those that test positive.

Additionally my DC come out of school looking visibly paler and often with headaches on hotter days and I am told that at lunchtime they take off their masks and put them on the floor under their chair while they eat!! How hygienic

To be honest I’m unsure why this is this sudden extra fear. Yes cases are up in the uk but schools have been open the whole year and since September to all pupils. Have teachers even in schools with relatively high cases actually suffered very badly with the illness?

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

When you know people that buy a fucking lanyard because they dont believe in masks its unacceptable and is questionable. But guess it's their own choice to risk catching it dunno why I'm bothered 🤷🏼‍♀️

Sooooooo many people don't wear masks and most dont wear it properly in shops so I cakt see children complying correctly.

What I intended to highlight with my experience is to be wary of looking at other countries to validate any claim that masks in schools make a difference.

@Lostinacloud

To be honest I’m unsure why this is this sudden extra fear. Yes cases are up in the uk but schools have been open the whole year and since September to all pupils. Have teachers even in schools with relatively high cases actually suffered very badly with the illness?

Did you actually just fucking say this? Would YOU go to work without Ppe with hundreds of other people in close contact on the basis that even if you get covid it might not be too bad???

TEACHERS HAVE DIED. THEY HAVE HAD TO END THEIR CAREERS AND HAVE BEEN LIFE CHANGINGLY ILL.

This is one of the most psychopathic things I've ever seen on here.

@cansu

Maybe we need to be a bit more solutions focused:

1. Many children 7 + can and would be able to understand the need to wear a mask in school. Many other countries illustrate this.
2. The very young children and children with SEN who can't should be in smaller classes where social distancing and hygiene practices can be increased. We should also work on testing younger children more regularly to mitigate the fact that they can't wear masks.
3. Children who are hearing impaired. It is possible to get transparent masks. Let's get those for staff and children who need them.
4. Let's get the testing regime into primary schools as well.

I am now waiting for parents to tell me that there is no way their child will take that test. Actually many can manage with their parents' support. So let's do that, let's get parents in to test their kids.

You don't understand hearing impairments if you think this is a solution.

a) the see through masks often mist up or don't show enough of the face anyway
b) they are usually solid, so impair breathing more, so fewer people can wear them
c) they still muffle sound (potentially even more than a standard mask); it's not just about being able to see lips; you also need the sound that is available to be as clear as possible

We live in Spain, kids have been wearing them since the summer, outdoors at all times, and inside shops etc, and all day at school since September for over 6s. All ages have to wear them on school transport, mine are 3 and wear them on the bus, and take them off once inside their classroom.
Older ones wear them from 8.30am until they get in at 2.30pm. No issues whatsoever.
Been lucky, none of their classes have had to isolate or had any cases.

@SueDeNimm

Yes I did just say that. And I caught covid myself in “magic” mask land and got over it, as per the vast majority of people under the average age of 82. I would happily go and teach at a school with kids because I am not scared of it and don’t consider everyone I ever come across to be a disease harbouring life form. I have (and had) enough sense to stay away from anyone else while I had symptoms and I’m sure the vast majority of the general public have the same good sense and understanding by now.

And just to clarify, of course I don’t wish ill on anyone but I don’t buy into the fear.

@Lostinacloud "Have teachers even in schools with relatively high cases actually suffered very badly with the illness?"

Yes, they have. We have several members of staff who are unable to return due to 'Long Covid', and 2 who spent over 2 weeks each in intensive care. That the Government prefers not to release this data should show how crappy it would look if they did.

From a handful of kids with asthma we now have half the school (secondary) with notes from mum saying they can't wear a mask.
I teach 2 kids with Autism and both wear masks as a lot of time and effort was spent with them explaining Covid, how to stay safe, why they need to sanitise their hands and wear a mask and so on - its by no means easy but its not impossible.

Its pretty insane that the same people who are 'reporting the neighbours' for a garden party with 5 people are the ones saying 1000 kids with no social distancing and no masks are totally fine.

It's not the fear. It's the reality. I fear fuck all but kids are asymptomatic and long covid is life changing. I've seen this kill people in their 50s and Kate garraways husband is still in hospital.

If I got it I'd probably be ok. Maybe. But if I wasn't I'd lose everything. You don't get to visit that risk and those consequences onto others and then say covid isn't that bad. There have been a lot of teachers on here that have had to give up teaching after getting it. Are you paying their bills?

The hospitals here are full to bursting the nhs is on its knees. People have died and are dying. Just because it's convenient to have your kids in school doesn't make it ok and if kids at school are wearing masks and still getting it then clearly they aren't wearing masks much of the time. It's a big ask for them. But not all schools are getting it.

I personally would be very happy if all Schools and parents that want to continue without masks do so. But only as long as they stay away from public transport, shops and everyone else. A mass isolation if you like. When I go into the supermarket and it's crowded with kids not wearing masks who have been crowded together all day I want to scream. But of course I don't - I just get out ASAP.

Endanger yourself if you want - but keep those that don't want to take that risk out of it. In the same way I wouldn't force you to ride in my car while I drive like a maniac. Because hey I havd t died yet so it must be ok right?

@sellotapeisnottheanswer absolutely bang on. It's completely mad and this shitty idea it's only over 80s in care homes so it doesn't matter is just a joke. Not to mention being incredibly cruel - I doubt many here want to be expendable when they get old. Disgusting.

@SueDeNimm

It's not the fear. It's the reality. I fear fuck all but kids are asymptomatic and long covid is life changing. I've seen this kill people in their 50s and Kate garraways husband is still in hospital.

If I got it I'd probably be ok. Maybe. But if I wasn't I'd lose everything. You don't get to visit that risk and those consequences onto others and then say covid isn't that bad. There have been a lot of teachers on here that have had to give up teaching after getting it. Are you paying their bills?

The hospitals here are full to bursting the nhs is on its knees. People have died and are dying. Just because it's convenient to have your kids in school doesn't make it ok and if kids at school are wearing masks and still getting it then clearly they aren't wearing masks much of the time. It's a big ask for them. But not all schools are getting it.

I personally would be very happy if all Schools and parents that want to continue without masks do so. But only as long as they stay away from public transport, shops and everyone else. A mass isolation if you like. When I go into the supermarket and it's crowded with kids not wearing masks who have been crowded together all day I want to scream. But of course I don't - I just get out ASAP.

Endanger yourself if you want - but keep those that don't want to take that risk out of it. In the same way I wouldn't force you to ride in my car while I drive like a maniac. Because hey I havd t died yet so it must be ok right?

You watch too much TV.

We’re in Ontario, Canada and all school children have been wearing them here this year from junior kindergarten (age 3/4) and up all year. Exceptions made for children with special needs. I don’t think they wear them perfectly and they do have breaks for eating, outdoor time etc but overall it seems to work.

There have been minimal outbreaks in schools and they have mainly been contained to 2-3 staff / children. Most children have adapted to it.

Obviously it’s not ideal and no one wants it but in person education is important. Next year we’ll hopefully be back to normal!

I’ve never said over 80’s in care homes don’t matter and that sentiment couldn’t be further from the truth. However they can be protected from exposure to children to a certain extent because you generally don’t get 80 year old primary schools teachers.

Where I am masks are mandatory for grades 3 and up, requested for younger grades. I send both my grade 5 and grade 2 kiddo with 2 superhero/Star Wars masks a day. It doesn't seem to have been a 'nightmare'. Im sure they aren't perfect with it but on the whole they are used to it. At least it's something along with extra cleaning, sanitizing. Cases at our school have been low and importantly transmission within school nil - so those who've picked it up at home have not been giving it to others in school setting so far. Seems a pretty small thing to help keep schools open imo, there have been other harder to handle sacrifices.

@user1471562688 I do watch too much tv because there's bugger all else to do. I do not however watch anything covid related at all, or read social media conspiracy shit. I only read the times and sometimes the Guardian or bbc.

I read some of these threads on mumsnet where yet another teacher is very sick, and I have friends who are teachers. I live in London and have seen numerous neighbours of staff and friends, and friends of friends get sick. My pr person has had two friends in their 50s die. My brothers neighbour got carted off to hospital on Dec 27th.

If you think covid is some kind of invented illness and no one is dying you are wrong. Obviously you don't agree and that's your prerogative but dont tell the teachers it's all in their imagination. Put yourself at risk but keep me out of it.

Also my local pharmacist has died. And my local Tesco where non mask wearing was endemic has had staff fall very ill - I head them talking about it in hushed tones. They won't be getting much sick pay. But then they also weren't enforcing mask wearing and were often not wearing them themselves. So that's two of my two shops I regularly go to with covid. Everyone I know knows someone that had it. My niece had it. Work contacts have had it. I'm struggling to find an area in my life where someone hasn't had it in fact. So far they either die or are ok. Which is something I guess.

masks can cause communication issues many people lip read

Really? Many people as opposed to a few, compared to say....most people who don't? All these people trotting out that their child has special needs therefore nobody else can wear a mask and schools should close. If this is the level of logic I despair.

I'm living in a very mask compliant country where local cases are pretty much at zero. Adults have to set the example for kids to follow. Kids see everyone wearing masks outdoors so they know they have to wear them too. I was surprised that such small toddlers were wearing them without complaint. Masks were compulsory for young kids for 6 months or so but it's now been relaxed.

My 3yo is autistic - we tried initially to get him to wear one but he wasn't having it. It's fine, exceptions are made for special needs. Oddly he has no issue at all with us wearing them or seeing everyone around him with masks on. At therapy the therapists mask up, some with transparent masks, but the kids don't have to.

@mamma3568

I'm living in a very mask compliant country where local cases are pretty much at zero. Adults have to set the example for kids to follow. Kids see everyone wearing masks outdoors so they know they have to wear them too. I was surprised that such small toddlers were wearing them without complaint. Masks were compulsory for young kids for 6 months or so but it's now been relaxed.

My 3yo is autistic - we tried initially to get him to wear one but he wasn't having it. It's fine, exceptions are made for special needs. Oddly he has no issue at all with us wearing them or seeing everyone around him with masks on. At therapy the therapists mask up, some with transparent masks, but the kids don't have to.

They wear masks outdoors! Oh gosh this just gets worse

It doesn't get worse though does it? Because cases are almost at zero. We will still be immunising people in two years and our economy will be on its knees soon. Life is pretty shit and if wearing a mask shortens that then is it worse than dragging it out for years snd years lurching from lockdown to lockdown with no useable nhs?

Kids across the world wear them. I am at a loss to understand what makes British kids anatomically different that "they can't" .Wearing masks outside is what saved Hong Kong during SARS. They learnt from it. It isn't that horrific, IMO.

I don't know. The usual answer I get is about discipline and how teachers will find it impossible to maintain it if pupils are masked. That has never rung true for me, just as the old "strict uniform rules are necessary for discipline" argument never did. Hopefully we will see that pupils wearing masks is a positive. Hopefully post covid people will remember that a variation in uniform rules did not make the sky fall and their hard on for zero tolerance uniform policies will reduce somewhat.

Maybe because they instinctively know masks harm children? They’re right as this study of 25,000 children shows. www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-124394/v1?fbclid=IwAR3zlKQGgfGzKc4X2vfBX21jAvygv8cHkMjFRtONlrmmlwQlG8NEzuTGzkQ

That study shows children are irritable and less happy if they wear masks. They will be much more irritable if their parents die or get long COVID, imo.