To ask if your child forgot how to use a knife and fork during lockdown?

[AtlasPine]

Covid school closures 'put children's lives on hold', says Ofsted chief www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55333685

Ms Amanda Spielman from Ofsed feels this is an issue. I’m a secondary teacher so it wasn’t a problem we saw.

No. Obviously not.

And frankly if that’s the worst thing OFSTED can imagine coming from school closures I’m not sure what their objection actually is. Apart from desperately trying to stay relevant in a world where they are clearly non essential.

It’s a parenting issue not a school one.
My own children did not regress. The children in my school did not regress in this way!
Schools should not be responsible for parenting.

Yes, it may be a parenting issue. But parents who are able to pick up and cover these types of issues when school falls away could themselves lucky that they have the time and resources to do so.

No, because we still ate meals sitting at the table using cutlery. The problem was a parenting one, where schools have to teach basic parenting skills.

No, but surely use of knife and fork isn't exclusive to school?

I think this is a weird thing to blame on schools.

I’m sure children have regressed in lots of ways - I teach Year 1 and their phonics are not where they would usually be at this point of the year.

However, a lot of their self care skills eg toileting are loads better than we often get so actually there’s been a trade off with being at home. The phonics is fairly easily caught up.

My child's school has been packed lunches only since September so no idea how they would know.

My 16yo has never been able to use a knife and fork properly.

He did deteriorate during lockdown.

But he has a neuromuscular edge active condition so I'm not sure I can blame school

I think this is a weird thing to blame on schools

Everything is the fault of schools and teachers - didn't you know? The Thatcher government ran a sustained attack on public education for a decade, it was a good distraction from massive unemployment and the trashing of regional industries.

Simultaneously attacking and defunding education is a good way to protect and extend privilege for the over promoted mediocre of the type filling most cabinet seats at the moment.

I can well believe this is the case in the areas near where I live, but it's absolutely a parenting issue not a teaching one.

I taught Reception for many years and each year we had children arrive at school with no concept of how to use cutlery. For those children I suspect this skill was quickly lost again when not in school. Their parents hadn't cared enough to teach it them in the 4 years prior to school so they will were unlikely to think it was a skill to focus on during a lockdown.

What an odd thing to blame on schools being locked down!
If you use cutlery at home, your children aren't going to lose the skill.
For families who think using a knife and fork is irrelevant and don't bother, the children aren't going to use them.
It's a parenting issue, not schools one....

Well, maybe it's a cultural issue.

Some cultures don't generally use knives and forks.

So maybe for some children school is the only place they use them.

It depends on the circumstances as to whether this means the child has "regressed."

I expect if we moved to China, my Dc might be flagged up as regressing with using chopsticks. As their parent, I'd be indignant at that accusation.

Doing something differently at home than at school isn't always cause for concern (though obviously it is sometimes).

I agree apple

Not everyone uses cutlery.

I do think that there should be a list of basic skill parents help their children with. Like a standard one.
Reception kids should be able to dress and undress themselves, follow simple 2 part instructions etc.
I know Ey provision has them but not everyone knows them.
For me cutlery use isn't as important as say being able to sit and concentrate for a lesson.

If a child forgets how to use a knife and fork after being at home for however long it was, that's not schools problem, it's down to shitty parenting.

How is that a school issue? What about all the dcs who take packed lunches and never use a knife and fork at school?

Don't people have knives and forks at home these days?

I saw this and thought it was very odd. I really don't know why it's considered such an important life skill to start with, as a dyspraxic with a dyspraxic son we've never been able to use them what is considered 'properly'. Also if the kids were able to use them properly before lockdown and they've 'forgotten' then surely it'll take all of two minutes to remind them - although I've never known any school I've worked in to feel responsible for teaching kids how to use a knife and fork anyway, and a lot have packed lunch so.....

For years this thing about using cutlery has been used as an exemplar of ‘bad’ parenting. It does piss me off.

I suspect a lot of it is cultural and the arrogance is around thinking cutlery is the only way to eat food - also part of the assumption that people won’t pick up cutlery skills when they need them, as I have picked up eating with chopsticks and eating at Bangladeshi and Pakistani friends’ houses deftly with my fingers or with a folded flat bread.

I think picking out that one example is completely trivialising the important point she was actually making:

The chief inspector, Amanda Spielman, says there are three "broad groups" to describe what has happened:

The "hardest-hit" group of young children have suffered from time out of school, going backwards on words and numbers and with "regression back into nappies among potty-trained children" or losing "basic skills" such as using a knife and fork.
The majority of children in the middle "have slipped back in their learning to varying degrees since schools were closed to most children and movement restricted" and the report says: "Lost learning is unarguable, but it is hard to assess."
There are also children who found the lockdown a positive experience - these children, from supportive but not necessarily well off backgrounds, might have benefited from a greater sense of togetherness with parents and "quality time" as a family
But Ms Spielman says this did not divide along the lines of advantage and deprivation, but instead factors such as whether parents were able to spend time with children and families having what she described as "good support structures".

What she actually said was nuanced and balanced. And she fully said that it's a parenting issue, but I don't see why that means it doesn't matter unless you just don't care about children in difficult, chaotic or struggling families and think they should suffer for having the audacity to be born to their particular parents?

She's trying to highlight the devastating growth of inequality following the closure of schools, which will be felt for a generation.

But yeah, hahaha, some people don't use knives and forks properly, hahaha.

My DC is pretty rubbish at using a knife and fork. They use the knife to tear rather than saw food. It doesn't matter how much i pull them up for it. We eat with chopsticks for the majority of the time so maybe it is my fault.

No , of course they haven't forgotten this

This bit is equally hilarious, of course:

There are also reports of a loss of physical fitness, while other pupils are showing "signs of mental distress", with concerns over eating disorders and self-harm.

Maybe the question is why out of all that the BBC ran with the knife and fork comment as the headline, rather than why the Chief Inspector of Schools thought she maybe should say something?

@Hardbackwriter

I think picking out that one example is completely trivialising the important point she was actually making:

The chief inspector, Amanda Spielman, says there are three "broad groups" to describe what has happened:

The "hardest-hit" group of young children have suffered from time out of school, going backwards on words and numbers and with "regression back into nappies among potty-trained children" or losing "basic skills" such as using a knife and fork.
The majority of children in the middle "have slipped back in their learning to varying degrees since schools were closed to most children and movement restricted" and the report says: "Lost learning is unarguable, but it is hard to assess."
There are also children who found the lockdown a positive experience - these children, from supportive but not necessarily well off backgrounds, might have benefited from a greater sense of togetherness with parents and "quality time" as a family
But Ms Spielman says this did not divide along the lines of advantage and deprivation, but instead factors such as whether parents were able to spend time with children and families having what she described as "good support structures".

What she actually said was nuanced and balanced. And she fully said that it's a parenting issue, but I don't see why that means it doesn't matter unless you just don't care about children in difficult, chaotic or struggling families and think they should suffer for having the audacity to be born to their particular parents?

She's trying to highlight the devastating growth of inequality following the closure of schools, which will be felt for a generation.

But yeah, hahaha, some people don't use knives and forks properly, hahaha.

Fair point to make generally but I wasn’t commenting on the article as a whole, just that particular example used.

And it's lovely that lots of MNers' children didn't lose any basic skills during school closures, but it's also exactly the point she was making. But if your kids are ok fuck the ones that don't have their advantages, right?

Well since starting school and eating most of their main meals there, I’ve noticed when my kids eat at home their table manners and cutlery usage along with fussy eating are appalling so I’m not sure lockdown could make them any worse. They regress at school in our case!