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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Michael Jackson, veto?

206 replies

InkyPinkyPonky95 · 02/01/2021 21:56

It's up to you to decide whether you think MJ is a pedo or not, everyone is entitled to come to their own conclusion... but I think he was guilty and it's kind of ruined his music for me.

I won't storm out of a restaurant if one of his songs comes on! but I won't play his music myself because I can't separate his music from how disgusted I am by him.

That being said, for those that do believe he is guilty do you now veto playing his music? Has it ruined his music for you too? Or have you found a way to compartmentalise your feelings about it?

Side note: I understand not everyone thinks he's guilty, that's fine! Completely up to you to decide what you think. Not here to judge, just to hear other people's feelings.

OP posts:
IamtheDevilsAvocado · 03/01/2021 23:33

People that trot out the old line..
Innocent til proven guilty.... Unless they're found guilty in a court... Etc. Etc...

Saldy I've heard this trotted out time and time again by victims.... Heartbreaking...

These are people who are vulnerable to sex offenders exploiting them /families...

By nature they're very manipulative.... ("I love kids... /do I look like an offender? "/ "I'm just a big kid myself so I want to have children in my bed for some pure play" 🤢)

barebetty · 03/01/2021 23:33

I went to an aqua fit class (between lockdowns) and one of his songs came on. I really didn't like it but I couldn't really flounce from a swimming pool Confused

barebetty · 03/01/2021 23:49

@dannydyerismydad

Found myself screaming at the telly tonight watching Aretha Franklin. "She became a mother at 12".

She was RAPED. It was so normalised.

Fucking hell. I had absolutely no idea!

I've just looked at her Wiki page. 12? 12? The way it's written is just like a fun fact - that she named her son after her father Clarence.

My heart is breaking (I have a 12 yo daughter who is in teddy pjs and hasn't started her periods yet). Horrific.

Notimeforaname · 03/01/2021 23:55

Just because he wasn't found to be guilty does NOT mean he did not sexjally offend..

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal precedent...
It's what you are supposed to start from in court
.

Yes I completely understand this. Just in MJ's case I myself believe he's innocent.

Just a differing opinion.

Meredusoleil · 04/01/2021 03:23

What's this about Aretha Franklin? What was th e programme and where can I watch it please?

Berriesandpineconess · 04/01/2021 03:34

I’m on the fence, I don’t know what to believe. I was never a fan but liked some of his music, however I stopped playing it at work incase it offended people.

Guineapig99 · 04/01/2021 07:26

I don’t think his f-up childhood is an excuse. Many abusers were abused. And many, many more abused kids/women/people DO NOT then inflict the same pain in others. Can you imagine how messed up this world would be if every girl or woman who’d been abused then went on to abuse other kids?

Guineapig99 · 04/01/2021 07:32

‘Found myself screaming at the telly tonight watching Aretha Franklin. "She became a mother at 12".

She was RAPED. It was so normalised.’

Was she raped? Genuinely question as her first two sons weee fathered ( when she was 12 and 14 ) by the same boy.

Guineapig99 · 04/01/2021 07:35

In her later years she apparently wrote a handwritten admission that both her sons were gathered by Edward Jordan, and her first son wasn’t the child of a school friend as she’d originally said at the time.

DecemberSun · 04/01/2021 07:36

Not an issue for me because I never liked his music but I have friends who feel they can't play him anymore without feeling uncomfortable.

Like the OP, I don't feel strongly enough about it to walk out if I hear him.

SomewhatBored · 04/01/2021 07:39

Yes, not a huge fan but I still listen to his music occasionally. I haven't researched the details of his life enough to have a definite opinion on his guilt or innocence. However, I'm on the opinion that a person can produce artistic output of merit whatever their moral character. Even if I knew without doubt that he was guilty, it wouldn't change the fact I enjoy some of his music.

MacDuffsMuff · 04/01/2021 07:39

I don't listen to him anymore. Shame, because Off The Wall was one of my favourite albums.

I believe he was guilty. I remember watching a programme with him about 15 years ago when it was so clear that lying was just second nature to him. He had no idea how to behave imo.

tisnotthedamnseason · 04/01/2021 07:45

I can't stand Michael Jackson's music anyway and never understood the hero workshop.
Regardless, yes I do think he was guilty and wouldn't play his music.

Ditto R Kelly, I'm disgusted that his music is still played.

Also Cee Lo Green after this. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/cee-lo-green-speaks-on-highly-irresponsible-rape-tweets-42319/amp/

Cokie3 · 04/01/2021 07:50

@IgiveupallthenamesIwantedareg0

This is just another thread about eradicating / re-writing history. pulling down statues, condemning what has happened in the past - we can learn a lot from history where we decide to base our - personal - current judgements - positive or negative. Have you - OP - looked at his upbringing? A person developes within the culture he is brought up in.
Angry @IgiveupallthenamesIwantedareg0 Your post is very offensive to victims of childhood sexual abuse. No longer condoning a person's actions is NOT 're-writing history'. And enough with his 'have you seen his childhood' bs. GIVE OVER!! He had a very privileged childhood compared to many children, and those other children don't grow up to be child abusers. Why do people make EXCUSES for someone!? There IS NO excuse for molesting a child.

NONE! And anyone who attempts to excuse it is as bad as the abuser themselves.

Cokie3 · 04/01/2021 07:51

OP, my father was sexually abused and I've seen the lifelong damage it does. I hate Michael Jackson, I hope he is rotting in hell, and no, I would NEVER play his music again. Ever.

InTheSnow · 04/01/2021 07:58

Never liked his music. Happy-flappy safe fairground music shite.

SimplyRadishing · 04/01/2021 07:59

Interesting...if you are against it, Where do you draw the line I wonder?

Off the top of my head....
John Lennon beat and abused women
Elvis was most likely also a paedophile, R Kelly is a convicted one who seems to merrily continuing.
Chris Brow & Terrance Howard beat women.
Johnny depp has never been more popular. Confused
Mark walberg very almost killed a man in a racially motivated attack Confused

Fwiw I 100% think MJ did it but don't think it detracts from his talent.

tisnotthedamnseason · 04/01/2021 08:00

[quote OneKeyAtATime]@JustOneMoreStep what are the dilemmas associated with Elvis and the Beatles?[/quote]
There were lots of artists of that era who were having relationships with underage girls and very open about it.
Loads of stories about Elvis and Priscilla was only 14 when they met.
David Bowie.
John Peel wrote about girls giving him blow jobs when he was in the states but excuses it because it was legal there.

I don't know much about accusations against Beatles members but John Lennon was apparently a very cruel and unpleasant man and domestic abuser.

PopsicleHustler · 04/01/2021 08:00

I really enjoyed r kelly music but he makes me sick. I had a nice album of all his classic love songs. Dont even know where it is now. And if I came across it , I would probably chuck it in the bin. I dont watch music channels either so I wouldnt even know if they played his or Michael Jacksons music videos at all.
To be fair, the only music I hear nowadays are in films. I stopped listening to radio and a pot of music these days are based on filth.

PopsicleHustler · 04/01/2021 08:01

@tisnotthedamnseason
Yes. Spot on. There are so many even Bob Marley.

PurpleFlower1983 · 04/01/2021 08:03

I still listen to his music although I wouldn’t actively put it on, in the same way I would still watch a film with Kevin Spacey in it even though he is what he is.

RealisticSketch · 04/01/2021 08:06

I do think that people who have created some good things/do variable achievements have often also come with awful moral compasses and the art and the artist are not the same thing. But same with saville and Rolf Harris if I hear anything that reminds me of them the thought is inextricably connected to what they've done, and I don't want thoughts of sexual assault popping into my head so I avoid it.

Cokie3 · 04/01/2021 08:35

@Groovinpeanut

I truly don't believe there was anything sinister with regards to Michael Jackson. I feel his father made Michaels life a living hell. To the point of approaching clinical castrations in order to keep his voice high pitched to sell more songs Being clinically castrated he would have had no urges. I know one thing for sure if anyone, and I mean anyone sexually abused any of my kids, there would be no amount of money that would stop me from obtaining the absolute highest penalty of prosecution for the perbatrator. Would you accept money from someone who abused your kids? I'd rip him limb from limb. Yet his so called victims settled for money.... Would you? Michael was an easy target, he lived his childhood through his adult life. He was no abuser, he was an easy target wide open for exploiting and he paid a heavy price for his innocence
His father making his life a living hell does NOT excuse his actions.

Jackson was not chemically castrated. In fact, videos of him in later years showed he put on his 'high' speaking voice and singing voice as a gimmick. It made him sound 'innocent'. It was an act. His real voice was deep.

I know one thing for sure if anyone, and I mean anyone sexually abused any of my kids, there would be no amount of money that would stop me from obtaining the absolute highest penalty of prosecution for the perbatrator. Would you accept money from someone who abused your kids?

This 'argument' can go BOTH WAYS. If you were innocent of a crime you were accused of, would YOU pay out? He paid off it is estimated between 4 and 21 kids. The FBI believes it was 21. Where there is smoke, there is fire. If someone accused you of molesting a child, WOULD YOU PAY OUT?

My late father was molested by a Catholic Priest. He got a measly $40 thousand dollars. Most of which went to lawyers. Now, you are very lucky you are not in the room with me to tell me to my face that my father must not have been abused because he accepted the money. Very lucky. I would not be responsible for my actions. The priest was 'too old' and he was let go.

There was NO PROSPECT OF MY FATHER GETTING ANY LEGAL JUSTICE. Are you saying he, and other victims, are not entitled to COMPENSATION?!?? If you fall over at work, you get compensation. If you or your house is damaged, you get compensation. If someone defames you, you are entitled to compensation. If you fall in a shopping mall and break a hip where there are obstacles and not cordoned off and no signs or warnings, you can get compensation for your injuries.

Is there some reason why you think a child who was molested, it destroyed their life, their relationships, turned them into an alcoholic and/or committed suicide, that they (or family members) are 'not' eligible for compensation????

Have a good think about that.

Damn right I'd, and any victim would, settle for COMPENSATION!

Jackson was clearly as guilty as sin, and he HID IN PLAIN SIGHT. A classic double bluff. He made people like yourself believe he was weird upfront but upfront so he was harmless. He hid in plain sight, and you fell for it. And his innocent VICTIMS paid a heavy price for people like yourself being blindsided by Jackson.

Believe me, no man makes up accusations like that. In fact, most men will DENY IT, like my father did. They'd rather gnaw off their arm and eat it, than admit they were molested. No grown man lies about something like that. And there is far, far too much smoke here. When a person, especially a man, says they were abused, BELIEVE THEM. Especially when they out themselves, knowing the abuse, death threats etc etc they will get from the more unhinged fans in the fan base.

Cokie3 · 04/01/2021 08:44

@Russellbrandshair

Of course he was a paedo! Anyone that thinks it’s normal for a 40+ year old man to invite children that aren’t related to him to share his bed and won’t allow their parents to stay in the house at the same time is an idiot. As for that whole “he was just asexual” defence- would you also say that if your kids school janitor asked your kid to a sleepover at his house where they’d be sharing a bed? If the answer is no then why is Michael Jackson “different”.
Exactly. Jackson hid in PLAIN SIGHT. And he fooled so, so, so many people who wrongly believed 'well, he's strange and upfront about it so if he was a paedophile, he wouldn't do that'. Classic bluff. And Jackson got away with it. And I bet these people going on about the drippy 'oh but his poor childhood' bs are the same people who will say that rapists, murderers and drug dealers shouldn't get a lenient sentence because of their upbringing. It's hypocrisy. Jackson's upbringing was very privileged compared to most children. My dad at 6 years old was given lollies by his grandma, said they were going to the zoo for a treat. He ended up at an orphanage, where he was whipped and beaten every day by nuns. No shoes, only one blanket in winter. And then in the senior orphans the Marist Brothers would beat you if you said or did anything out of turn. Even if you were helping out a fellow boy who was struggling with something, if one of the Brothers caught you, they'd hit you.

My father had a much worse upbringing than privileged, spoilt Michael Jackson could EVER imagine. My father didn't grow up to surround himself with young boys, nor did he lay a finger to me or any other child. Jackson was a spoilt brat who got everything his way, even as a little boy.

Cokie3 · 04/01/2021 08:48

@Livelovebehappy

He wasn’t convicted of anything. I love his music and listen to it without feeling freaked out by him. But if you’d have said Gary Glitter, I cant hear his name without my stomach turning.
He wasn’t convicted of anything.

OJ Simpson wasn't convicted of his wife's murder either. Are you going to say that despite the blatant evidence that he did murder his wife, therefore he is 'innocent' and you can watch back over his sports career? Rich and powerful people like Simpson and Jackson get away with things all the time.

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