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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be surprised that there are such a strong socialist/communist-leaning attitudes?

40 replies

MsJaimeSommers · 02/01/2021 19:19

I'm not from the UK but it always struck me as a capitalist-leaning country, especially given that the Tories have been in power for so long. But the attitude to coronavirus - the idea that the entire country must sacrifice, in many cases sacrifice their own wellbeing or even their lives - for the wellbeing of others, is much more like socialist or communist related attitudes. Taxes are likely to go up a lot as a result of lockdowns but AIBU to think that now is the time to push them way up, as high as they can go especially for higher earners? It seems there's an appetite for it, and it'll do a lot of good.

OP posts:
PearlclutchersInc · 02/01/2021 19:21

Hmm Republican perchance or just all for one and sod the rest of you?

Original poster
MsJaimeSommers · 02/01/2021 19:21

I should clarify that I live in the UK and am a higher earner.

OP posts:
Original poster
MsJaimeSommers · 02/01/2021 19:21

I don't understand your comment sorry @PearlclutchersInc

OP posts:
Orf1abc · 02/01/2021 19:22

Second communism thread this year?

Socialism is not about people sacrificing their lives or wellbeing for others. Communism is not socialism, and if you want to search for the other thread, you'll find very few in favour of it.

Yes to increasing taxes though, but not 'as high as they can go'. You seem to have some rather extreme ideas.

Orf1abc · 02/01/2021 19:23

I can't say whether you're unreasonable or not because your ideas are all over the place.

LadyfromtheBelleEpoque · 02/01/2021 19:26

Because we are not simply a capitalist society - there is a strong Anglican streak throughout our thinking and it permeates our policy and practice.

I am slightly annoyed that a high earner, not from the UK but working here hasn’t perceived this yet. It is the very framework that underpins much of what you avail of.

LadyJaye · 02/01/2021 19:26

I don't think you know what communism is.

Warsawa31 · 02/01/2021 19:26

Communism doesn't work it led to the death of 100 million people in the 20th century. Free markets and democracy are the best of a a bad bunch of ideas we have really - the U.K. roundly rejected socialism at the last election 🗳

That being said a pandemic is a health emergency and whether you agree with the governments approach to not once they started down that road it is going to lead to a massive increase in taxes over the long term

GreenlandTheMovie · 02/01/2021 19:27

I lived in another European country for a while, ostensibly with higher taxes but with many more tax deductions possible so probably worked out about the same as here. I find the UK very socialist in the way which you describe. I think its possibly due to a mixture of something to do with the schools and over-representation of certain viewpoints on social media and in focus groups.

For some reason, a lot of British people also assume that "the Scandinavian countries" (which they believe includes Finland) are socialist (they're progressive capitalist) and that every other country has an inferior, expensive healthcare system to the NHS, which denies "poor people" even basic healthcare.

DdraigGoch · 02/01/2021 19:28

but AIBU to think that now is the time to push them way up, as high as they can go especially for higher earners?
YABU. There is already a marginal income tax rate of 62% for earnings of over £100k. It's affecting productivity in the NHS as many highly-qualified doctors have gone part time as there's no point working extra for very little in the pocket. If you raise taxes, you won't get more money. The 45% rate brought in more income than the 50% rate did.

sst1234 · 02/01/2021 19:32

Neither socialism, nor communism have anything remotely to do with people’s well being or progressive thinking. Both are failed ideologies trotted out by people who are economically illiterate. It is basically an unnatural and dangerous way to trying to to organize society which always leads to hunger and destitution for the masses while those who have zero skill to create wealth or prosperity benefit the most.
Honestly, to even call it student politics is an insult to students. As we all know, everyone’s a socialist until they can’t get an iPhone.

Original poster
MsJaimeSommers · 02/01/2021 19:33

The communism reference is distracting. I did say communist-related rather than communism, really in terms of the acceptance in principle that for the good of the whole population some people have to step up and make sacrifices.

It seems a good time to make the most of that willingness to step up, especially when it's so badly needed.

OP posts:
LadyfromtheBelleEpoque · 02/01/2021 19:39

I think the problem is that some solutions to social problems are associated with certain ideologies when perhaps they are just the correct/sensible/practical/inevitable response and not owned by a school of thought. Some people really struggle to grasp this.

Original poster
MsJaimeSommers · 02/01/2021 19:41

People seem to have learned that losing jobs and businesses is a small sacrifice, they seem willing to accept hardship if the overall goal is positive. So why not harness that? Not for a communist society, I agree that communism is bollocks. But for a society where people are willing to live on very little (but enough) so others can also have enough.

OP posts:
bp300 · 02/01/2021 19:44

Unfortunately we are not a capitalist country but I wish we were. We are a very socialist country but the money is distributed to all the wrong people.

sst1234 · 02/01/2021 19:45

OP, I am really not getting your argument. It’s a bit unclear. But to answer your last point, people having what they need is not a zero sum game. The whole point of a society based on free market principles is plentiful supply. It goes wrong in capitalist societies when govts move too far to the left.

StoneofDestiny · 02/01/2021 19:55

Not following the argument on here.

However, if you mean some people seek the greater good for all, rather than the survival of the fittest - then, it's not people following 'socialism or communism', just people with a moral compass who feel compassion and humanity should inform all policy.

LadyfromtheBelleEpoque · 02/01/2021 20:02

@StoneofDestiny. Yes, well said.

MaskingForIt · 02/01/2021 20:22

Communism and socialism are very different things, and you don’t son well to learn the difference.

The Tories are not going to put taxes up. They will squeeze the public sector in the name of “austerity” just like they did once they were voted in, in 2010.

Original poster
MsJaimeSommers · 02/01/2021 20:22

@StoneofDestiny

Not following the argument on here.

However, if you mean some people seek the greater good for all, rather than the survival of the fittest - then, it's not people following 'socialism or communism', just people with a moral compass who feel compassion and humanity should inform all policy.

I agree - and I think as there is such a strong feeling that seeking the greater good for all is the right way to go (as opposed to years of benefit cuts, cuts to the NHS, unwillingness to pay taxes etc) then now is the time to say, for example, that if you earned a certain amount in 2020 then you should give a percentage of that to those who couldn't earn/lost their jobs, for example?
OP posts:
KatieGGGG · 02/01/2021 20:43

Politics in the U.K. is so much more complicated than left = socialism right = capitalism. They’re both a mix of both.

None of these are communism.

I don’t think looking out for others is any particular political ideology either. Each thinks they’re doing what’s right by people - it’s the manner in which they do that’s different.

bp300 · 02/01/2021 20:48

@MaskingForIt

Communism and socialism are very different things, and you don’t son well to learn the difference.

The Tories are not going to put taxes up. They will squeeze the public sector in the name of “austerity” just like they did once they were voted in, in 2010.

Hopefully they do. Their spending over the last 12 months has been ridiculous and taxes are far too high as it is.
Skylor · 02/01/2021 20:49

I'm not from UK either and I think it's because countries like UK, France, Sweden had post war roots in social democracies (not communist, still very much economic capitalists) E.g. NHS.

Except I think the Nordic countries have evolved to a better state than us now. They are smaller though.

Hillaryshlouldbeprez · 02/01/2021 20:52

Because we are not simply a capitalist society - there is a strong Anglican streak throughout our thinking and it permeates our policy and practice.

Really? In my experience the uk has hugely turned away from Christianity over the last 30 years.

Allispretty · 02/01/2021 20:54

Obviously you've explained that you are not directly referring to communism and have stated communist related however with regards to socialism I would completely disagree.

I would regard myself as a socialist and people's ideas on here are not in line with socialism in that they have one way thinking. There is no consideration for impact of the pandemic in other areas other than saving life's now. No consideration for Mh, poverty, domestic violence, other life limiting illnesses cancer etc. So I would say from this stance you are completely incorrect and do not understand socialism.