Toddler class still running in Tier 4

[AllChange2021]

On Facebook I've just seen that a local toddler class is still running. We're in Tier 4. There was a message to the effect that the organiser had read the restrictions and believed that they can still meet. Classes last 45 minutes and are a lot of fun but the parent or carer has to stay with the child/children so this in no way is helping parents work nor providing respite for the adults.
So there will be ( up to 15?) parents/carers indoors with toddlers. Doesn't this make a mockery of the Tier 4 Stay At Home message and the sacrifices we're all making? How can anyone go ahead with this with a clear conscience in the current circumstances?

What’s the actual point of any of this if you can go and mix with people at a zoo or crazy golf

Don't know about zoos, but in crazy golf there's no mixing unless you are all booked in together as one family. I guess people could do that if they really wanted to but it's a faff and easily challenged.

OP, in Tier 4 before Christmas all schools were open. These toddler classes would have been a drop in the ocean in transmission compared to teenagers. Gavin Williams threatened court action against councils which wanted to close schools a week early for the holiday.
People are going to 4 supermarkets a week (according to MN). People are going to work. Let's have some perspective.

It’s not that i’m a fun sucker, it’s that i want the numbers down as fast as possible so we can all return to some sort of normality
But that isn't how it works. As soon as we return to some sort of normality, the numbers go back up again. We have seen that. Following the rules or not, the only way out of this is a vaccine.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

What’s the actual point of any of this if you can go and mix with people at a zoo or crazy golf

Don't know about zoos, but in crazy golf there's no mixing unless you are all booked in together as one family. I guess people could do that if they really wanted to but it's a faff and easily challenged.

Yes I agree. And a zoo is no different to a park or gardens and nobody seems to have a problem with those being open. I've been to a zoo and crazy golf during the pandemic (in the Summer) and at neither was there much opportunity to mix with loads of people.

And as for those who want to have fun - there's a pandemic on. Can you possibly postpone your fun until after people stop dying?

Seriously?
No fun for a year? No thanks.

We’ve had great fun throughout; all within the rules. Why would I try and make my kids
Lives even more miserable?

Pre covid people died daily, didn’t stop everyone else having fun

What a weird thing to day

When playgroups were open here before our level 4 lockdown (Wales) there were pictures of the babies all dressed in their Christmas outfits laid right next to each other on Facebook, so I won’t be risking taking mine to any.

It’s allowed but the people who run these groups and those that attend are incredibly selfish

The baby/toddler group we go to is very well ran -
has no more than 8 parents with babies between 6 months and just over a year (so no full on runners)
Everyone has their own mat to sit on, all measured out at least 2 meters apart
Everyone has their own tray of sanitised toys for the class
Masks are to be worn, unless you are on your mat

That is the only baby group I would be happy to attend, even in tier 4.

Some of the other groups, like messy play ones, have to much mingling for the babies for my liking

Don't go then.

When I had my baby in April there was nothing open at all and it was fucking hard. I'm glad new parents have some options of things to attend now and I'm glad parents of toddlers can go to groups, even if they have to socially distance whilst there.

Maybe the gov didn't get the memo that they needed to run everything by you before publishing the rules?

@Sway19

It’s allowed but the people who run these groups and those that attend are incredibly selfish

Yes, how dare they look for support. Fucking wankers.

All are still opening near us and we're in an area where schools have shut. To be honest the ones I have been to feel very secure - everyone wears masks, children have to stay on their own mat and windows and doors are wide open. Seems strange when schools are open though.

There has to be a a balance. I think it’s important that some baby groups can run if they are managed carefully and offering support but there are certainly some that are stretching the support rules. Many won’t open and I’ve seen an interesting discussion from providers on this. I’m less keen on children’s outdoor sport continuing if school is not open. I’d rather school was prioritised absolutely. I’d be surprised if many clubs did open though. Everything near me has shut, even things that technically could open.

I suppose one of the reasons this seems so mad too is that support groups for adults have stopped. Need help with chaotic drug use/drinking, you need to have a phone to do a virtual group! Phylis and Joan can’t do their bridge club even though thats the only time they see people, no one would even risk assess for about eight old people to share a community centre
Groups need to all be cancelled or allowed for all, its crackers saying one set of people are fine but others aren’t...... whilst kids have lost a lot so have other vulnerable groups

I think you should focus on how the group is run, ask about face coverings and social distancing, and then decide if you feel OK to go.

The government wants those whose work requires them to go to a factory, shop or other place from home to be able to do so, and this aligns with the wish to only close schools as a last resort.

@Fatladyslim speaking in that way is so unbecoming. I’m a mum to a young toddler so I do understand, but I’m also a nurse who went back to work from maternity leave straight into the pandemic. I can see both sides, but stand by my original statement

It can be incredibly isolating to have a young child at the best of times never mind during restrictions. This will benefit the children and socialising as well as the mental well being of the parents. Especially when the weather is so awful it's hard to get out of the house. I'm sure social distancing guidelines will be followed.

@Underadesk

I suppose one of the reasons this seems so mad too is that support groups for adults have stopped. Need help with chaotic drug use/drinking, you need to have a phone to do a virtual group! Phylis and Joan can’t do their bridge club even though thats the only time they see people, no one would even risk assess for about eight old people to share a community centre Groups need to all be cancelled or allowed for all, its crackers saying one set of people are fine but others aren’t...... whilst kids have lost a lot so have other vulnerable groups

Part of the difference being that Phyllis and Joan are both massively at risk from covid. Service users for addiction support often (though of course not all) have chaotic lives and/or take higher risk and are at much higher risk for having covid, as well as severe mental illness (which again is often though not always comorbid) is a risk factor to vulnerability. It would be good to have them in person but the risks are really high.

Children on the other hand have very low vulnerability, and women between 20-40 who form the bulk of attendees of these groups are lower risk. On the other hand, the lifelong risk to children from parental depression and failure to cope in the early years is very high.

The baby class I go to is running, as are NCT walks, and mum & baby yoga.

Thank god.

I hate mumsnet at times; I take it anyone whinging about these groups running never struggled with being alone with a baby all day?? This is supposed to be a parent support site.

It’s allowed but the people who run these groups and those that attend are incredibly selfish

Those selfish first time parents who've spent months isolated and can finally get some support. Those selfish parents bordering on PND because of the isolation they've faced.

Being a parent is fucking hard. I'd have sunk without baby groups.

I've attended play group with my DD over the holidays. Its provided by short breaks and is still operating in tier 4.

I hate mumsnet at times; I take it anyone whinging about these groups running never struggled with being alone with a baby all day?? This is supposed to be a parent support site.

This absolutely. The attitude of mn at the moment is that Covid is king. If you dare to struggle with anything else then you should just suck it up, your mental health doesn't matter.

110% I would be attending if it was my first dc, going to a baby group saved me!

They didn’t sleep, didn’t like to be put down and was a really hard baby. You know who got me through it, other mums. I don’t have any family support. Not everyone is so luck to have a family member nearby so who do these women have to turn too?

I could nearly crying thinking about my mental health and where I was with my first dc, without the lovely mums I met and few classes I went to I most definitely would have spiralled into my PND more and who knows where me or my baby would be. I struggled to love my child but meeting other mums who struggled too was a lifeline. If there is a mum like me that can meet a mum and then arrange for a walk outside and form a bond and j am all for these classes staying open.

As a mum with a young baby on maternity leave who doesn’t talk to another human other than their partner in the evenings the risk is pretty low for them catching covid, it’s not like they are going out much and with a young baby are probably being as safe as possible.

I suppose one of the reasons this seems so mad too is that support groups for adults have stopped. Need help with chaotic drug use/drinking, you need to have a phone to do a virtual group!

Adult support groups are allowed provided it is “reasonably necessary” for the people to be physically present. Reasonably necessary is obviously pretty vague and open to interpretation.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum Just like as I have a baby under one I can travel out of tier 4 to my sister in a lower tier. I just have to declare her my support. So technically my whole family could have spent Christmas in Cornwall without breaking the rules

It's also strongly encouraged that you have local support, and that you only leave home for limited reasons. So yes, in theory you could have travelled but that's because not everything can be legislated and they have to trust that people make adult decisions, and some people might truly have support only further away.

Also, you couldn't have seen your whole family in Cornwall unless they all live with your sister and see therefore one household - it specifies that if you are in Tier 4 you still need to follow Tier 4 rules if you leave, so you wouldn't have got to do the Christmas day mingling.

If you're going to be the rule police, at least get the rules right

[quote OverTheRubicon]**@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum* Just like as I have a baby under one I can travel out of tier 4 to my sister in a lower tier. I just have to declare her my support. So technically my whole family could have spent Christmas in Cornwall without breaking the rules*

It's also strongly encouraged that you have local support, and that you only leave home for limited reasons. So yes, in theory you could have travelled but that's because not everything can be legislated and they have to trust that people make adult decisions, and some people might truly have support only further away.

Also, you couldn't have seen your whole family in Cornwall unless they all live with your sister and see therefore one household - it specifies that if you are in Tier 4 you still need to follow Tier 4 rules if you leave, so you wouldn't have got to do the Christmas day mingling.

If you're going to be the rule police, at least get the rules right [/quote]
Not the rule police at all

I meant my whole family as in my household. Sorry if not clear.

Not judging people at all. I was just stating that there are a lot of things open and allowances for us with babies.