To ask why are part time workers disliked?

[CherryCocoa]

I've recently returned to work but part time. It would appear that a lot of people higher than me are not keen on part time workers but I don't understand why? I work hard, I am conscientious, none of my work is passed to anyone else, but yet I'm still looked down on for being part time. Is it seen as lazy maybe? I work 30+ hours a week, I have a baby to look after and a house to run and obviously my pay is pro rata to account for less hours. I'm not a lazy person at all. I just don't get it, can anyone shed the light for me please?

@LolaSmiles so only FT should work on the harder tasks then? Even though ft and pt get the same hourly rate. So you're saying because I'm ft I need to suck it up and work harder?
You are right that they are not managed properly but then neither am I. In our industry we are expected to self manage to an extent. So it's wrong of the PT to take on a job knowing they they will be late off but because I work full time I would then have to do the job and be off late. That doesn't seem fair!

PT workers tend to get the the end of their shift, say 2.30pm (for the school run) and leave on time every time. They get paid pro rata anyway so that shouldnt be a problem. But the FT workers who regularly work longer hours until the tasks get done, without overtime, are resentful of it.

From a manager, I have headcount of say 5 people in a team. But 1 then comes back PT from mat leave and is now 0.6 of a persons hours. I don't have permission to recruit for the remaining hours and hire another person, the cost is too much once you factor in the cost of all company benefits/recruitment etc. I have to wait for another to go PT so that I can then get the extra headcount back, by which time, management will argue that I've copied without it for so long that I don't need it any more. All the while, the FT people have been picking up the slack on an unpaid and unseen (by upper management) basis.

@LolaSmiles so only FT should work on the harder tasks then? Even though ft and pt get the same hourly rate. So you're saying because I'm ft I need to suck it up and work harder?
I didn't say that at all.

I said allocation of tasks is a management issue, not a part time worker issue.

They are perfectly within their rights to work their contracted hours, as are you.

You seem to be directing most of your irritation at part time staff for not solving the problems of ineffective management. Their role isn't to take on big tasks and work beyond their contract so you feel better about the fact your work beyond your contract.

You've raised it with management and they've given you a response (a poor one at that) so either:
You decide you're not willing to put up with the conditions /workload so look to move jobs
You decide you're not willing to keep putting in all the hours required to address the consequence of poor management, so you stop the overtime
You keep doing what you're currently doing and spend months being annoyed at part time workers because they're a convenient scapegoat for your workplace frustrations

@LolaSmiles
Ok it's not the kind of tasks you can just drop. Think of it as a medical operation. There are 2 operations to do that day. One is 6hrs long and very complex the other is 4hrs long and fairly straightforward. I work an 8hrs shift and PTer is working a 6hr shift. They will say I need to take the 4hr op as I can't be late off. I always have to do the longer more complex op just in case it runs over which mostly they never do but occasional they do and you can just down tools.
So you're saying the FTers should always work harder and longer just because PTers need to get off on time and why should they work over. Well how about me? We earn the same hr rate. Is that fair?
Plus we are expected to pick our own tasks but most of the ft will whine and wail till they get the easy jobs.

I manage a team in my workplace and have 2 ladies who work part time (plus 6 full time) from my experience, the frustration towards part time workers isn't directed at the part time person themselves, but more at some situations it creates.

For example, my part time workers do 3 days per week each, so if any of their clients call in for help/to book something in on the 2 days they aren't there, someone else needs to pick that up and deal with it even tho it isn't their client and they gain nothing from it. It's also the frustration when a part time member of staff has been dealing with something, then they go on their days off and a question crops up about the thing they had been dealing with that only they know the answer to. we try our best to keep everything up to date and do constant handovers before their off days, but things are always cropping up that they haven't passed over information on, or they have been waiting on someone returning a call, then that person calls when they aren't there meaning someone has to step in and try to figure out what's going on. It really isn't easy to manage

One of my part time workers in particular is very inflexible, she woks Mon-Wed and when she leaves at 5pm on a wed, she will not answer her phone if we need her to clarify something on a thur/fri no matter how urgent it is. I obviously cannot make her communicate with us on her off days and it has caused a few issues for other members of the team who have clients screaming at them for information we don't have because the part time worker hasn't updated the account before she finished and now wont answer her phone

So you're saying the FTers should always work harder and longer just because PTers need to get off on time and why should they work over. Well how about me? We earn the same hr rate. Is that fair?

Except I haven't said that at all.

So just to copy and paste the same response I gave last time you claimed I was saying you should work more:

I said allocation of tasks is a management issue, not a part time worker issue.

They are perfectly within their rights to work their contracted hours, as are you.

You seem to be directing most of your irritation at part time staff for not solving the problems of ineffective management. Their role isn't to take on big tasks and work beyond their contract so you feel better about the fact your work beyond your contract.

You've raised it with management and they've given you a response (a poor one at that) so either:
You decide you're not willing to put up with the conditions /workload so look to move jobs
You decide you're not willing to keep putting in all the hours required to address the consequence of poor management, so you stop the overtime
You keep doing what you're currently doing and spend months being annoyed at part time workers because they're a convenient scapegoat for your workplace frustrations

The fact that you've read that and still claimed this means I'm saying you should do more and everything is unfair suggests to me that you'll probably fall into the final course of action: keep doing the same thing and keep blaming part time staff for failures of management.

@LolaSmiles you are not reading when I say we mostly manage ourselves. All divvying up of tasks are done by us not supervisors.
And like I said previously the PTers I work with will wail and cry about how they might be off late.
I guess you work part time and stick to your hours and see nothing wrong with others being off late.

@wellthatsunusual

Why do employers allow staff to eg go to the dentist on a working day if they are only part time? All of my part time contracts have said that things like that must be scheduled in non work hours unless it is unavoidable (eg a hospital appointment, or an emergency appointment with a dentist or GP for a medical emergency. Not just a doctor's appointment or a dentist's checkup)

At my place people part timers say that they tried to get an appointment on a non working day, but couldn’t. 90% of the time they do it on purpose. They’ll expect the employer to be flexible and give the morning off, but will never give an hour back in return when the employer wants. Then they’re surprised when they don’t get promoted. I’m not saying all part timers are difficult like this, but it’s easy to understand why they’re disliked. We’ve had part timers moan that they don’t get a bonus - the same part timers who leave on the dot, pass unfinished work to others and are totally inflexible

@LolaSmiles you are not reading when I say we mostly manage ourselves. All divvying up of tasks are done by us not supervisors.
I absolutely have read it.
It's still a management failure.
If what you say is true then you aren't mostly managing between yourselves because some people are getting all the easy jobs, some are getting the harder tasks, and some people are having to do excessive overtime due to poor allocation of tasks. It doesn't sound like a team that is managing.
Whoever is responsible for the team is being an ineffective manager.
And like I said previously the PTers I work with will wail and cry about how they might be off late.
Again, problem with management.
Someone is responsible for overseeing the team and is accountable for the team's outcomes. If they choose to run a team in a way that tasks are allocated based on who demands the most then they aren't managing well.

Though I find it a bit telling that you present your part time colleagues as unreasonable and childish for wanting to work their part time hours.

I guess you work part time and stick to your hours and see nothing wrong with others being off late
I love this is your assumption because I've stated that you're blaming your part time colleagues for management failures.

This reinforces that the likelihood is that you are probably going to continue doing what you're doing and continue to blame your part time colleagues for management failures.

Why are you so keen to blame your colleagues for working their hours instead of management who have told you they have no intention of running the team differently?

@Pinkallium

Lots of people saying “it costs more to employ 2 people rather than one”. Just wanted to point out that it actually costs less. eg to employ 2 50% hours people on £20k each costs less than one 100% on £40k because employers NI is only paid over a threshold amount for each employee.

@Pinkallium you are completely wrong. It’s much more expensive.

Equipment, insurance, manager time, HR costs, dare I say it The Christmas Party, sqft cost, any benefits the list goes on.

Part timers are so much more expensive. Not including the fact as plenty of people mention they do not always put the same hours in as their full time peers (pro data I mean)

@wellthatsunusual

Nobody can seriously think this.

Astoundingly they do. I remember a conversation with a man who was ranting because a female colleague had negotiated part time hours after having a baby. He said it was awful because she was now only working three days a week but was getting paid the same as him. It took some time to convince him that if she now worked 3 days a week, she was only getting paid 3/5 of what he was getting paid. He admitted that he had always thought that women had a legal right to retain their full salary, he hadn't understood that retaining your salary only meant retaining it for the hours you now work. He's not the only person I have met who thought that.

Perhaps he meant the same, pro rata. Eg he was on £50k for a 5 day week and she was on £30k for a 3 day week. If not, what an idiot.

I totally understand why someone would be pissed off with a part timer being paid the same pro rata. In my experience of part timers (I’m
Or saying all) they’re unable to be flexible and don’t work a moment later than they’re contracted too. They won’t bring work home with them, but will leave it for the full timers to do. They’ll expect a morning off to go to the doctor / dentist and not be willing to be flexible in return.

I’m not saying all PT are like this, but I’ve seen many who are.

It's true some part timers are like this, they are taking less pay so are not going to work 40 hours and be paid for 30. Also if their contracted hours are until 3pm to pick up children from school they have to go. I'm a 0.8fte and I understand that flexibility works both ways I'm happy to take work home if it needs doing and my ft coworkers dont pick up any slack from me. On many occasions I'm doing the school run with my laptop in my bag ready to log in for a couple of hours unpaid to get something finished that cant wait. On the other hand, I believe full timers should finish when their contracted hours are over too unless something really needs doing. There can be a culture of presenteeism which part timers sometimes cant be involved in even if they wanted to as often their pt status is driven by the necessity of caring responsibilities.

I'm a full timer and don't do overtime. I don't see what it's got to do with part time/full time.

Lola, management is not omnipresent and omnipotent. They can set the rules but it still depends on the individual staff to comply in good faith and have some give and take. If pt-ers don't pull their pro-rata weight, the ft-ers who care about the outcome pick up the slack unless they also boycott in which case the whole company suffers.

As a manager, I cover for my pt staff and defend their hours to my US management who keep asking me to review whether they are the 'right' person for the job. It is a pain but they are new parents and so I try to see it from their perspective of needing this shelter at this time in their lives.

@miserableannie

I also have children by the way. But do work full time

Ohh, I think someone is jealous of part time workers 😁!!

I work 15 hours a week and do not qualify for tax credits - why do posters keep stating this as a reason when so many just aren’t eligible?

Also not lazy; I’d struggle to maintain my home working full time, due to its size.

I also do work (currently at home) above and beyond my hours. I also know I’m still more efficient than my full time equivalent.

Nope never heard this before. The majority of where I work is part timers. I work In my job 9-3 mon- thur, fits in with school hours. Don’t receive any benefits top ups. Partner works full time. Maybe they are jealous you are part time? Lol

Perhaps he meant the same, pro rata. Eg he was on £50k for a 5 day week and she was on £30k for a 3 day week. If not, what an idiot.

No, he thought she was getting paid the same as him. As in the same actual money. (Although it was nowhere near 50k!).

As well as all the HR/practical points already set out by @Alexashutup, it's because when a part time staff member is not working, others have to pick up their work, or at the very least reply that so and so is not back til their next working day. It can slow progress down and is perceived by many as inconvenient and annoying. It also obviously depends on someone's working pattern too and how long colleagues have to wait for work to be done.

There are very few absolutely genuine part time jobs - most are people trying to do as much as they can of a full time job in reduced hours. Part timers generally are efficient and work hard, but the work continues to mount up on non working days and that's the problem.

I have worked for bosses who worked part time, worked in a job share myself, then part time and now full time again, so have seen it from all perspectives, but I must say that working part time was hard, as I could never do the hours that the job really required and felt I was always playing catch up. I now work full time I find it frustrating and irritating covering for part time colleagues or waiting for them to be working again to progress things.

I work in a part time role at two different businesses. Both employers act like it’s a great inconvenience to them that I don’t work full time, and expect me to be able to rearrange my days at a moments notice to accommodate their wishes. It’s all rather irritating.

Reader, I don’t want part time. Neither business deems there to be sufficient work for a full time role, but they’d like me to be available full time for them to pick and choose...

Part timers are so much more expensive. Not including the fact as plenty of people mention they do not always put the same hours in as their full time peers (pro data I mean)

They put in as much as they are paid, for, surely?

@miserableannie

If I'm being honest, yes I think part time is lazy. Many of us have children and a house to run and many other things we have to do in live but can still work full time

So what if I'm lazy? Why do you care? I do the work I am paid to do and what I do with the rest of my time is none of your business.

I also credit my part time working pattern with being more available generally. I can schedule appointments on days off, it's easier to juggle school stuff with fewer hours to make up, I'm rarely off sick because I don't burn out with stress and have more time to exercise.

I guess you work part time and stick to your hours and see nothing wrong with others being off late

They work part time and do their hours. It's not up to them to make sure you're not being exploited by your employer.

I dont get all this expecting people to work more hours than they're paid for. In my job that would put me below NMW, ie breaking the law

I experienced this when I returned from mat leave, but mostly from older, childless women. The same ones who got sniffy that I might want to take some annual leave when 'hadn't I already had a year's holiday'.

@kittenpeak I am completely right about the employers NI. It is not paid on the first £8,722 of salary then at 13.8%, so a saving of £1,200 per year when a job is split between two people. A lot more than an extra person at the Christmas party! In my business there are not any significant additional costs - other standard benefits, pensions etc are a % of salary. I completely accept that it may cost more in some roles / businesses of course, but in many including mine it doesn’t.

I know this because I am a director of the business (working part time.) We need a flexible workforce and in my experience it is easier to achieve this when some staff are part time. Some people are difficult to manage and some are lazy, I don’t see any link between this and working hours in general. Although I do feel that most people find it very difficult to work 8 hours solidly each day and employees working a shorter eg 5 hour day are actually the most productive.

One of my part time employees is about to work five days a week for the month of January and will then go back to three days a week for the rest of the year. This works brilliantly for us and IMO is a far better way to run a business than asking the full time employees to work 50 hours a week for the month.