To ask why are part time workers disliked?

[CherryCocoa]

I've recently returned to work but part time. It would appear that a lot of people higher than me are not keen on part time workers but I don't understand why? I work hard, I am conscientious, none of my work is passed to anyone else, but yet I'm still looked down on for being part time. Is it seen as lazy maybe? I work 30+ hours a week, I have a baby to look after and a house to run and obviously my pay is pro rata to account for less hours. I'm not a lazy person at all. I just don't get it, can anyone shed the light for me please?

My full time colleagues eat lunch together daily and have a coffee break before starting their "overtime" hours - I work through my lunch and am flat out to get things done in the limited time I have. When I was full time there was just more space in the week to achieve things and also have a bit of a social time at work (this is very dependent on the specific job you're in)

[quote SuperbGorgonzola]@kittenpeak I think some of your points about keeping to time are a bit unfair.

There are some days where I have to leave bang on time in order to collect my children from nursery. My husband is a shift worker so cannot do it. I work late when I can, and if something is calendared, I make arrangements, but I would be gutted to think that my colleagues think badly of me on the days where I walk out the door on the dot.

I was able to move to a role where ad hoc emergency late working was far less likely, but it took me about 6 months post Mat leave and not everyone might be in a position to do this without leaving a job/company they love working for.[/quote]
@SuperbGorgonzola I’mnot saying every part timer is how I’ve described and it’s good you aren’t like the ones I’ve always worked with who arrange their personal appointments on working days. But I must admit, when part timers leave on the dot (for whatever reason) and expect full timers to pick up their unfisnished work, it’s very frustrating. I think the reason for leaving on time is irrelevant. Whether it’s to pick up your child from school, take an elderly relative to an appointment, go to your own personal appointment, or dare I say it get home in time to watch tv (no problem with that!) in my experience part timers just feel they can leave on the dot.

I’m not saying all are like that, it’s just my experience.

We have a lot of full timers who are parents. They don’t leave on the dot. The part timers who leave to pick up their kids will pass their work to the full timers, who also have kids to pick up. Where I am, there is this attitude that if you are part time you have rights that others don’t. It drives me mad. They then get upset when they’re overlooked for extra responsibility etc because they’ve demonstrated they can’t handle it and aren’t flexible.

Just to be clear, as I’ve mentioned in previous posts, I think all industries are different. Where I am we are paid well above the market rate and are expected to be flexible - and this is reflected in our generous pay and benefits. I am happy to work late into the evening when it’s needed because that’s what I signed up for (and a part timer has left me to do it probably) and I’m
Happy to take home the pay each month. Part timers who earn the same pro rata do not put this extra effort in, and are then angry when they are not given extra responsibility

@CheetasOnFajitas

from my perspective (full timer) it’s frustrating when part timers just leave when it’s busy and expect (yes they expect) a full timer to pick up their work

What do you mean here though @kittenpeak? Do you mean they clock off at 5 on their working days, or that they don’t work on their non-working days?

I think that the two get confused here- I also work in an industry that routinely requires long hours. As a part-timer I work 3 days a week but on those 3 days I work late evenings and early mornings if needed to get the work done. On my non-working days, however, I am simply not available as I am caring for my young son.

The problem is that many part timers have not only one or two full days off work, they also work limited hours in their “on” days. But the two should not automatically go together. The two working arrangements should be agreed separately, just as a full time worker can negotiate a “hard finish” or late start on certain days to accommodate other commitments, via a flexible working request.

@CheetasOnFajitas no I mean on their working days. So if they are scheduled to work til 5pm, and it’s super super busy, they will log off at 5pm. They won’t give an inch of flexibility. Because it’s busy and they’ve refused to work past 5pm, a full timer needs to pick up the work otherwise the work doesn’t get done. Or, if they are scheduled to leave at 3pm, they’ll pass work over to someone else “as there are 2 hours left” forgetting the person they have passed work to has their own to do.

If I reach 5pm and a deadline hasn’t been reached , I stay to finish.

I’m not saying we should glorify people who work 70 hours a week, but I work for a company who pays very generously and a certain amount of flexibility is reasonably expected. Part timers (who earn the same pro rata) are not always prepared to be flexible. Again, not all are like this including you, but it’s so frustrating when someone walks out the door at 5pm on the dot, expects someone else to pick up their work (and then moans when they are not considered for extra responsibility, despite demonstrating they aren’t able to give it).

I say what you are saying, Kitten, and I don't appreciate working with people who don't do their fair share either. Just because I work part time doesn't mean I don't help out other colleagues whenever I can but you also have to know your worth. In my previous role, I worked 0.9 meaning I finished at 2pm rather than 4pm twice per week. No aspects of my role were taken from me, so I was effectively cramming a 40 hour job into 36 hours and being paid less.

I'm not quite sure that some full-timers realise that if you have paid childcare you can't stay past your hours even if the company is figuratively caving in around you. DH finishes at 5, I finish at 4 so I can be at nursery to collect (closing time! I can't even phone and ask them to keep DS a bit longer). We have no family here to collect for us. When I was full time staying on juat meant a quieter drive home and a late dinner.

@CherryCocoa

I've recently returned to work but part time. It would appear that a lot of people higher than me are not keen on part time workers but I don't understand why? I work hard, I am conscientious, none of my work is passed to anyone else, but yet I'm still looked down on for being part time. Is it seen as lazy maybe? I work 30+ hours a week, I have a baby to look after and a house to run and obviously my pay is pro rata to account for less hours. I'm not a lazy person at all. I just don't get it, can anyone shed the light for me please?

Over the same x week period you will accrue less experience?

I agree hammering. Not only that but the childcare years also aren't that long in the context of a career. I'm still hard working and effective, but I was more flexible before I had children; and when they're more independent, I will be able to be flexible again.

But this is the issue women face when they fade into the background during the time they are pregnant and mothers of young children.

I worked PT after I had ds, I worked 18 hours over 3 days until he started school & then 18 hours term time only. What FT people don't understand is that someone who works 50% of the hours still received 100% of the emails & still needs to receive the same amount of training as a FT post. I used to spend most of my Monday 6 hours catching up on memos & emails from Thursday & Friday the previous week & any training that had arisen. Working only 18 hours term time meant that when a new computer system was introduced the first week of the 6 weeks holidays, I didn't receive the training & hadn't been using the system for a month like other members of staff, I was expected to pick it up on my own as the trainers had moved on to other offices. Work practices that were discussed & changed after Wednesday lunchtime, I only found out about the following Monday via email, I spent every week trying to play catch up but my hourly work rate was exactly the same as other members of the team even though a higher percentage of my working hours was spent on emails, memos & training.

There appears to be some sort of outrage at people who wont work for free. That is very sad

[quote kittenpeak]@CherryCocoa likely because the PT staff attitude gives them reason to dislike them, and unfortunately you are being tarred with the same brush. I know everywhere is different but this is how it is at my place of work:

I am FT and meant to work 40 hours a week, but some weeks more like 55. I don’t expect any extra pay. The work needs to be done. I make sure work is done, if ive had a busy week I speak up, and I can be trusted to get the work done. A PT who works 20, doesn’t work 30. They are out the door no later than 5:01pm. They take their full hour for lunch and arrive no earlier than 09:00. You could argue that’s what they’re meant to be doing but they provide no flexibility, expect to be paid extra if they work over their hours and this attitude makes life harder for others. Where I am, (and it’s not all PT but it’s a lot of them) they cannot be trusted to take on certain projects just incase the project pushes them over their hours and then they can’t understand why they are not given pay rises or promotions. Another example is they will expect to be allowed the morning off for a dentist appointment, but not work an extra hour if the company is having a busy week.

Not that it makes a difference, but just for context these are not school leaver / entry level roles. They’re demanding roles which pay well and a certain level of flexibility is required and this is reflected in the pay and benefits.

It might be that your company have had problems with part timers, and you are just seen as the same - which isn’t fair. Prove them wrong![/quote]
If a job is worth doing it's worth paying for.

And for many part time workers to work extra hours unpaid might mean they are working for under min wage. Why the hell should anyone do that?

@BonnieDundee

There appears to be some sort of outrage at people who wont work for free. That is very sad

Agreed. Seems people prefer ft workers because it's easier to rip the hole out of them

@JokeTheCoalman

“If a job is worth doing it's worth paying for.

And for many part time workers to work extra hours unpaid might mean they are working for under min wage. Why the hell should anyone do that?”

As I said, all industries are different , and of course I agree that people shouldn’t work for under minimum wage.

What I’ve said, is that for me, I work for a company that pay very well and well above the market rate. With this in mind, and with the excellent benefits we receive, our employer expects a certain level of flexibility. If we are approaching a deadline, we don’t log off at 5pm and don’t do the clients work. I’m not saying this is a constant occurrence, but considering we are paid well and our employers treat us well, they expect us to put extra effort in when needed.

Part timers in the industry in which I work do not give the flexibility they’re expected to. They’re happy to be given the excellent pay and benefits (pro rata of course), but will not be prepared to put in extra time when it’s needed. They will infact pass work to full timers when it’s time to log off. Drives me absolutely mad.

I totally get if you are working an entry level role / you’re a school leaver / working minimum wage you shouldn’t be expected to “work for free” but if you accept a job and are happy to be rewarded extremely well, you need to put in an extra effort when it’s needed, part time or not

If your industry or organisation isn't suited to part time workers, blame the management who think it is and incorporate it.

Nurseries, Childminders where I am close at 5.30 - I can think of one I saw that shut at 6, but it had a poor inspection. It's not always easy to just stay behind after five because the work isn't finished. I remember life before there were dc to collect, it was all much more flexible than it is now.

@hammeringinmyhead

I'm not quite sure that some full-timers realise that if you have paid childcare you can't stay past your hours even if the company is figuratively caving in around you. DH finishes at 5, I finish at 4 so I can be at nursery to collect (closing time! I can't even phone and ask them to keep DS a bit longer). We have no family here to collect for us. When I was full time staying on juat meant a quieter drive home and a late dinner.

I’ve been on both sides of the coin with this. It simply wasn’t possible to stay late, whatever the reason, I needed to leave at 5 on some of my PT days as the nursery closed at 6. When the nursery is closed it’s closed, if you don’t collect your kids they call social services!! Sometimes PT workers don’t have any choice. Now I’ve been back FT for 8 years i certainly don’t judge those who have to leave as I understand it. It’s a shame that this attitude still persists.

If your industry or organisation isn't suited to part time workers, blame the management who think it is and incorporate it.

So management should sack all pt workers in that industry? I am assuming pt workers would prefer to have a less-than-perfect pt job than no job at the end of the day. Pt workers can always quit. I am sure they would prefer the choice.

@ItsIgginningtolookalotlikeXmas

Nurseries, Childminders where I am close at 5.30 - I can think of one I saw that shut at 6, but it had a poor inspection. It's not always easy to just stay behind after five because the work isn't finished. I remember life before there were dc to collect, it was all much more flexible than it is now.

Exactly. And if your contract is part time that’s it. It’s not part timers responsibility to worry about full timers. Life isn’t fair sometimes.

@ItsIgginningtolookalotlikeXmas

Nurseries, Childminders where I am close at 5.30 - I can think of one I saw that shut at 6, but it had a poor inspection. It's not always easy to just stay behind after five because the work isn't finished. I remember life before there were dc to collect, it was all much more flexible than it is now.

Absolutely. Mine closes at 5, and during November lockdown moved to 4.30 close for cleaning. I'm not rushing home at 4 on the dot to make sure I catch Pointless.

A nursery my eldest child attended shut at 6pm on the dot. I purposely chose this nursery because it was close to my place of work. There was no option of me staying to 'do a little extra' because the nursery charged a substantial fee for every 5 minutes after 6pm you were late. I have no idea whether this was actually ever enforced, but it was written into the contract, and a strong deterrent for me never cutting it fine to get there!

@blueshoes

If your industry or organisation isn't suited to part time workers, blame the management who think it is and incorporate it.

So management should sack all pt workers in that industry? I am assuming pt workers would prefer to have a less-than-perfect pt job than no job at the end of the day. Pt workers can always quit. I am sure they would prefer the choice.

No, they shouldn't hire them at all if it really is impossible to do a good job on part time hours in that place, as so many people are claiming. In other words, don't blame the part timers if your organisation can't handle it no matter how good they are. Blame the management who does think it's possible and offers and pays for part time roles.

I'm part time.

I am really intrigued as to what the alternative solution is when people so sniffily say PTers are leaving on time to pick up children. Are you really suggesting that someone from school or nursery staff should keep their child past closing, or that the other parent who is actually being paid to work until 5pm should disappear for an hour to collect? Maybe I should change my hours to finish at 3.30 and then I can have a pat on the back if I stay til 3.50? Not sure which full timers that'll help.

@hammeringinmyhead

I am really intrigued as to what the alternative solution is when people so sniffily say PTers are leaving on time to pick up children. Are you really suggesting that someone from school or nursery staff should keep their child past closing, or that the other parent who is actually being paid to work until 5pm should disappear for an hour to collect? Maybe I should change my hours to finish at 3.30 and then I can have a pat on the back if I stay til 3.50? Not sure which full timers that'll help.

I had a boss once who bollocked me for leaving on time. I was part time, but full days: three a week. As he had advertised for and hired me on. The next day I stayed seven minutes late to appease him, hit the traffic and arrived to collect my daughter 20 minutes after nursery closed. Handed in my notice the next day and told him it simply wasn't possible for me to stay late as he wanted; didn't go into the idea of working for free because I knew he didn't give a shit about that.

I used to be part time, and the real problem is that presenteism is a real thing, the idea that simply being seen to be at your desk is so important. There's definitely a number of people who see part timers as shirking work.

I used to get someone making comments in a sniffy way when I left for the day, along the lines of "ooh, look at you leaving early". This only stopped when one day I stopped, and replied in a loud voice that yes, I was part time, and I was paid part time.

The number of part time roles in that place were few, because of funding processes. Managers were scared to have part time staff in case they couldn't get funding to increase the hours should it be necessary. It was all about "just in case", and I knew a number of people stuck in full time roles that didn't need full hours because the work wasn't there. They had managers who wanted staff to sit idle, just in case they were needed.

Am amazed at the perceptions of so many on this thread.
I've worked PT fr 22years. Wouldn't have it any other way. Never, ever felt disliked, or looked down on, or that my career has been stalled because of it. I do realise that this is going to vary industry to industry though, I'm no that naive.
But I am surprised by the perception of the whole tax credits thing, and also the fact that some people actually seem to believe that all PT flk stick rigidly to set hours whilst FT colleagues pick up slack. I can't believe that people can't see that isn't universal. If it is happening where you work, then take it up with your manager / union / HR / whoever seems appropriate - don't state it as if it were the same everywhere, as it isn't.

@hammeringinmyhead

I'm not quite sure that some full-timers realise that if you have paid childcare you can't stay past your hours even if the company is figuratively caving in around you. DH finishes at 5, I finish at 4 so I can be at nursery to collect (closing time! I can't even phone and ask them to keep DS a bit longer). We have no family here to collect for us. When I was full time staying on juat meant a quieter drive home and a late dinner.

Isn't this conflating two different things, employees with caring responsibilities and part-time workers? For the first 18 months I was back at work after having DS I worked full-time but had to leave on the dot if it was my pick-up day. Since then I've worked four days a week and still have the same issue, but it's because I'm a parent, not because I work part -time. I have, incidentally, always logged back in and worked from home in the evening if necessary - of course that's much less visible than doing the same work in the office.