@Frouby
I'm not hostile to vegans! But my opinion is based on a few things. The fact that not all or even most farmers are cruel, many care about their stock and the stock are kept healthier and happier in more natural environments than some family pets. Without farmers producing meat animals many breeds would simply cease to exist within a few years. Look at the suffolk punch, Cleveland bay and hackney, all near extinction now because the breed is no longer useful.
I try and buy seasonal and local fruit and veg, I grow as much myself as I can, can preserve and pickle and freeze and I'm struggling beyond root veg and brassicas atm without buying imported products. If I was purely eating plant based I would struggle to get variety into my diet without air miles which makes me question if its more ethical to eat an omelette from locally farmed eggs, or eat something like a plant based macaroni cheese from the ready meal section, with the processing energy and plastic that comes with it.
I looked at the abstracts for the studies you listed, the first can't really be compared to the UK as it was based in Italy which has quite a different climate to the UK. The second is based in the US and Europe so again not really specific to the UK, but also says you can have the same impact as a vegan diet by substantially reducing meat and dairy.
I've no arguement with vegans or vegetarians or anyone really. I just believe eating locally, seasonally and ethically is better for the environment based on my own postcode. And have yet to be convinced otherwise. I suspect someone living in a warmer part of the world could eat vegan and be more environmentally friendly but not sure how you would be an environmentally friendly vegan in the UK.
I'm not hostile to vegans! But my opinion is based on a few things. The fact that not all or even most farmers are cruel, many care about their stock
No one has suggested farmers are cruel people - that doesn’t mean farming methods are not cruel - castrations and tail docking without pain relief, separating calves from mothers at a day old, growing chickens so quickly their legs break under their body weight - all standard farming practices. Or do you not consider these cruel?
and the stock are kept healthier and happier in more natural environments than some family pets.
What’s your evidence for this? As a vet that’s simply not true in my experience.
Without farmers producing meat animals many breeds would simply cease to exist within a few years. Look at the suffolk punch, Cleveland bay and hackney, all near extinction now because the breed is no longer useful.
So? Your argument is that t’s better for animals to be suffering than for breeds to die out?
Even if you believe that, How much investment in rare breeds do you think the average commercial farmer makes? Many farming breeds are dying out despite farming as most commercial farms use a few highly selected bloodlines, so again there’s no actual basis for your assumption.
I try and buy seasonal and local fruit and veg, I grow as much myself as I can, can preserve and pickle and freeze and I'm struggling beyond root veg and brassicas atm without buying imported products.
Great. None of that addresses the welfare issues which are the focus of the OP though. And none of that is standard in an omnivore diet.
If I was purely eating plant based I would struggle to get variety into my diet without air miles which makes me question if its more ethical to eat an omelette from locally farmed eggs, or eat something like a plant based macaroni cheese from the ready meal section, with the processing energy and plastic that comes with it.
Because omnivores don’t eat ready meals/convenience food too? How many omnivores do you actually think pickle/preserve and buy locally like you? It’s primarily omnivores driving the plastic convenience-food market. You do seem to be struggling with an absolute lack of imagination if you think vegan mac and cheese ready meals are a mainstay of vegan diets
I looked at the abstracts for the studies you listed, the first can't really be compared to the UK as it was based in Italy which has quite a different climate to the UK.
You don’t have to compare it to the Uk, it’s comparing the diets within the same geographic location. If you’re choosing to ignore it, what’s your basis for doing so? Where’s your evidence? Unless your argument is that the Italian climate supports the growing of vegan-macaroni ready meals...?
The second is based in the US and Europe so again not really specific to the UK, but also says you can have the same impact as a vegan diet by substantially reducing meat and dairy.
The second is a meta-analysis of published literature. Not really sure why I’m still bothering here. Your insistence on clinging to your own ignorance is obvious. You can’t even be arsed to read the evidence, let alone understand it...
I've no arguement with vegans or vegetarians or anyone really
And yet here you are - slandering vegans , accusing them of killing wildlife, and talking absolute bullshit based on nothing but your own opinion. I know you objected when someone else said that and honestly I tried to have a constructive discussion but it really is impossible when someone is so arrogant as to state that their own biased uniformed opinion overrides published evidence.
I just believe eating locally, seasonally and ethically is better for the environment based on my own postcode. And have yet to be convinced otherwise.
No one has argued against this. But how many omnivores do you think do this? Supermarkets would go out of business. You’re confusing 2 very separate issues, and the evidence is(regardless of your uninformed belief) that veganism is better for the environment that an omnivore diet. You’ve yet to be convinced otherwise because you cannot be arsed to educate yourself.
I suspect someone living in a warmer part of the world could eat vegan and be more environmentally friendly but not sure how you would be an environmentally friendly vegan in the UK.
Because you can’t be bothered to read the science, do any research or rely on anything but your own uninformed assumptions. In your head it seems your uninformed opinion overrides all.