To ask what you’d do in this situation?

[tealtraveller]

A bit of backstory: NZ is one of mine and DH’s favourite places, but when DC were tiny the thought of going there permanently was unrealistic (we have no family there). DC1 (16) is adamant that she’s going to live there when she’s older and has been for about 6 years.

A job has come up that would be perfect for me (my job is classed as skilled so that’d be the way to a visa). I’m considering applying for it, DH thinks I should too. Haven’t told DC but DC1 would definitely want me to (DC2 I’m not so sure - she’s 13 for context). I know there’s a chance I won’t get the job, but if I got it I’d find it hard to turn down. This isn’t an opportunity that comes up often so it’s kind of now or never.

Pros

• live in one of my favourite places
• better work/life balance
• DC1 really wants it
• they’ve dealt with covid well

Cons

• won’t know anyone/no family
• DC1 would be moving to a new school system straight after GCSEs
• not sure how DC2 would react but probably negatively

So what would you do in this situation?
YABU - don’t do it
YANBU - go for it

My parents moved our family abroad when I was 13. I was utterly depressed and totally miserable for the first year (homesick and really missed my friends, plus adapting to a new school system). After the first year, I settled and enjoyed it. However, I would not now do the same thing to my own kids. Young teens need stability and consistency. I don't think an overseas move provides that.

My DD is there now...travelling! They have just been allowed to move. She loves it and says it is very beautiful. A friend from work always long to go then they did the older one came back but mum, dad and younger sister are still there and love it. DH’s cousin went and still there.

Go for it.

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

My experience of NZ is that the young don't tend to stay put. They find Oz more attractive, and the UK, and the States so you may well find that this move splits your family across the world as your kids get to late teens / early twenties and seek adventure.

Just something to consider before you make your mind up.

NZ is a dull place for young people to live, especially after being brought up in the UK and, because of the low population, you have to locate to do your preferred job.

Certainly lots of young NZers go overseas in their 20s and 30s - I did and lived in London for 6 years. My parents and lots of their friends did too. Because of our location we tend to wander overseas for longer periods of time. We can’t drive or catch a train to another country!

BUT I reckon about 2/3 of all young people come back - especially when they have kids and those children get to school aged. This is evident in my group of peers (I’m in my early 40s) and also in my daughter’s class at school where about 1/3 of the class where born to NZ parents living overseas.

My parents expected their children to live overseas at some point and perhaps to not return permanently. That’s life here - it’s just different.

There is a lot for young people to do - especially in Auckland and Wellington and in rural and provincial centres I suspect it’s the same as anywhere in the world.

@Fantail I have duel citizenship and a split family due to this. If your children meet and marry someone from their travels, then the splitting of families spreads to whoever they marry (either those parents have a son / daughter on other side of world or you do depending on where they settle).

It's very common occurrence and the possibility of this should be taken into consideration.

I have spent a great deal of time in NZ (hence being mistaken for a resident) and know that it's easy to see the country with rose-tinted glasses (especially after Jacinda Arden's excellent handling of Covid-19) but, in truth, I have never witnessed poverty in the UK like I have seen in NZ. In NZ I have come across neglected children who don't even own a pair of shoes and that is truly shocking to see.

Also, no one mention the frequent earthquakes much, or the Maori/white racial tension.

Everywhere has its problems but I find NZ is one place that people visit and then go misty-eyed over. I hear "it's like England 50 years ago" a lot, and it really isn't.

Oh, and the medical costs too. NZ don't have an NHS system like the UK. For example, a hearing aid in NZ will set you back 15,000 NZD, that's about £10,000.00.

Yes and I’d agree with you (although I’ve seen shocking poverty in the UK too).

You can’t do much about whether a country gets earthquakes or storms or floods or volcanic eruptions or has multiple poisonous snakes ams spiders (Australia), or many terrorist attacks.

People shouldn’t move thinking that their problems are going to be solved, and should go into it with eyes wide open. Having moved countries and seen many friends, family and colleagues do so I just feel that it is a normal thing to end up with people you love spread across the world.

I think you should properly think through what it will be like to not be part of family events again (if you have them and value them at all) and not to be able to be there for ageing parents (again, if you have them). If you're OK with that then unless your 13 year old is struggling (e.g. with MH issues or significant problems making friends) I'd probably not stay just for them as they will make new friends. But they may not feel like it's really their home and may choose to live here when they are older. Will you be OK with that? Or if you ever come back and they choose to stay, again will you be OK with that? If you have health and money then you can visit once a year maybe but you can't assume you will have both of those things for ever. My brother moved to Oz when his oldest was 12. She took about 2 years to settle but has some good friends now. She still misses her family here and is aware that she is no longer close to her cousins and that's after 4 years so it's not without heartache.

I would say go for it.

However I wanted to caution on your pros and cons. I think you have overplayed the pros and maybe underestimate some cons. The pro that made me sigh is “better work life balance”. I moved to Australia as a skilled migrant in 2010, I was on moving abroad forums and those thinking about it always spouted work life balance as one of the reasons for going to be “more outdoorsy” was another one.

Well I never found the Australians clocked off at 4pm to go to the beach, I worked just as hard there as I ever did in the UK (fortunately I was not expecting anything else). The company I worked for had a NZ branch and it seemed much the same as the Australian branch in terms of work effort required. I also didn’t become more outdoorsy, in fact I find the UK climate more conducive to outdoor activities.

The family con you have mentioned could turn out to be more of an issue than you intended. You could end up with a split family at some point, it is a tricky age to move teenagers, even the older one. It is great that you have the chance to give them eventually the benefit of holding two passports, but you need to be think ahead for the possible consequences.

You are making your decision based on your DDs childhood dream- has she even been to NZ?
She may not like it.
You may all go as a family and DD1 may decide to move back to the UK once you are established- would you uproot your family and DD2 back to the UK?

Apply - consider it further through the application process.
You mention "no family" as a concern - how connected are you to family here?

Agreed. I would've REALLY hated moving countries when I was 13. I certainly wouldn't do that to my kid/s if they didn't want me to.

I would have LOVED it! Always up for a new adventure!

Another whose parents moved around a lot as a child and loved it! It does tend to make you feel as though the world is your oyster.

Depends where you live in uk? Going from a small town here to NZ might not be so bad but going from a large cosmopolitan city with lots to do to sleepy NZ with very different social life (drinking at each other’s houses etc) may be hard to deal with. It really depends on your personality.

I wouldn't with DC those ages. We lived in Perth for 3 years and that was bad enough for teens. Visited NZ half a dozen times and it is truly beautiful - especially the sounds (fjiords)....but it is so remote and you feel really aware of it. There is fairly significant unemployment and it has some of the highest drug abuse rates in the world (as does Oz) as there is a lot of boredom and it is very expensive to travel outside of the country. For some bizarre reason, NZ and Oz also have a lot of "bikey" gangs which used to keep themselves to themselves but are now branching out into drug dealing, extortion etc. What I am saying is, there is good and bad everywhere but NZ is often touted as some sort of green nirvana and it really isn't. I know I will get flamed for this but its just my opinion.

I know you older DC thinks she would love it but she only knows it as a holiday location. If it were me, I would support the older DC to give it a try and then she still has a home to come back to if she doesn't settle.

@GreenlandTheMovie

Another whose parents moved around a lot as a child and loved it! It does tend to make you feel as though the world is your oyster.

Yes, this. Over the course of my life I've moved country several times, and often involved separation from loved family members. At one point I and my two adult children were living on three different continents. But we wanted to be together and now we are all living in the same country within 20 kilometres of each other, which is perfect. But that "the world is my home" feeling is great, and I think travel abroad, not just on holiday but to actually adapt to a new country, is a fantastic learning experience for young people -- even if they initially don't want to.

I can think of a few families I know who have successfully moved to Australia and 10-20 years on are very happy with no thoughts of returning.

Conversely I know 2 families who went to NZ, both returned within a couple of years. It wasn't the place they expected - too 'small town', parochial and one family experienced racism to a much greater extent than they ever had in the London suburbs. I think culturally it is a very different place to the UK.

I lived and worked in NZ for a year some while back.
Yes it is a truly lovely country with an ideal climate.
BUT, it is a long long way from anywhere, and that mentality shows. It's expensive to travel abroad, particularly when compared to the UK with cheap breaks to Europe, and cheap long haul flights to America and Asia.
I came home to UK 'cos family, friends and the opportunity to travel with young kids was too important to give up on.

Doggy What I've noticed about Oz is that the drug problems aren't visible...unless you live in the areas where they're prevalent. It's so bloody big here that it's easy to find a nice, safe suburb with nice, safe people.

The downside of that is that it does feel quite boring and middle class...but it's also lovely because you're not looking at the effects of crack or whatever on your high street.

I agree with the basic concerns over NZ though. A LOT of poverty there.

@Malahaha

Agreed. I would've REALLY hated moving countries when I was 13. I certainly wouldn't do that to my kid/s if they didn't want me to.

I would have LOVED it! Always up for a new adventure!

Right, which is why I certainly wouldn't do it if they didn't want me to.

It should be quite easy for OP to talk to her 13-year-old about it and find out how she would feel..

If you apply for the job and get it, what would you do if your DC2 strongly opposes it? Surely it’s better to sit down as a family and discuss it? Takes everyone’s views into consideration. If DC2 is dead set against it then you don’t apply, if they have doubts, then do apply , and again discuss as a family as you go further into the interview process.
I can imagine nothing worse than being offered my dream job and having to turn it down because of someone else. I would rather not apply and think along the lines of I may not have been offered it anyway, iyswim.

Re NZ being remote - we’d be moving from a smallish town (~10k people) to a place ~30 minutes from Auckland so probably won’t be too different to how it is here?
Re family - we saw my parents once a month pre covid, my brothers a bit less than that (7/8 times a year), and DH’s family 4/5 times a year. Covid has made me realise that I can manage with only seeing family a few times a year, and we’d probably aim to come home once a year, at least for the first few years.
Re other concerns - we’d only be able to move if I got the job, so even if DH couldn’t find work straight away we’d still have my salary and wouldn’t be in poverty. I’m aware that there’s no NHS, but none of us have any health concerns at the moment (I realise that this can change). Drugs/gangs has always been something that was concerning, but DC1 has friends in NZ and they’ve never been involved so presumably she’ll make friends with other people like them.

DC2 is fairly good at making friends so I’m sure she’d be fine once we were there, but I don’t think she’ll like it beforehand.

Do it!

I moved to W different country when I was 19. I hated it. But I’m so glad I did it. You won’t ever regret going for something.

I’d do it in a shot

110% apply, you might not even get it (I hope you do get it) but then your stressing over nothing. Only stress once you have a job offer.

I moved loads as a kid and it never harmed me and realistically what ever you do will be unimpressive to a 13 year old. Pros outweigh the cons in my opinion!

It should be quite easy for OP to talk to her 13-year-old about it and find out how she would feel.

Sure, talk to her; but if three family members are strongly for and a 13 year old, with little experience of life, was against, I think it's OK to override that child's desire. Life is not always about getting what you want, and if the parents think it's right for the family, including that child, I think it's OK. Thirteen-year-olds don't get to make family decisions! Put it to the vote.