Hospital staff, tell us the reality

[Ihateme]

I’m am so fed up of seeing people comment on here that schools should be going back, that people should not be reporting mass gatherings in tier 4, how dare people begrudge a child their birthday party etc...

The hospitals are in a worse state now than they were during the first peak. Would any doctors or nurses care to confirm this? Maybe then these Mumsnetters will get the message.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/01/healthcare-workers-covid-conspiracies-coronavirus-deniers?utm_term=755c2f1185663e3ce7110c2df73b8d2b&utm_campaign=BestOfGuardianOpinionUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=opinionuk_email

This is an interesting article for any deniers on this thread.

@TheLittleDogLaughed

Papatron and RosesAndHellebores so you are suggesting that the NHS aren't struggling with the pandemic and staff are generally just lazy?!

Wow. You really should go and work in critical care for a few days. My brother often does a 12-hour shift and doesn't have time to go to their locker room to get a drink of water (they are not allowed to keep drinks etc. on the ward any more).

And you think that even Boris Johnson's concerns about the NHS being overwhelmed is some kind of fantasy?

No, I never said that. What I meant was that the NHS is always overwhelmed and there are always stories of it being beyond capacity... a couple of years ago we had the story of the child who had to spend the night sleeping on a dirty hospital floor etc, and there are always stories about people not being treated due to capacity being exceeded. So it is harder to convince people it's any worse than normal and that all these very destructive restrictions are justified. I think 'the boy who cried wolf' is apt. When Boris Johnson, a known liar, is the principle spokesman it's not surprising that people disbelieve him. With regard to the media, they're known to be incapable of reporting properly on science, always going for the sensational and failing to understand or properly interpret statistics. Not to mention the outright lies and misrepresentation in journalism generally. Trust in the news media is very low, and for good reason.

Papatron the story about the boy asleep on the floor wasn't crying wolf though, it was true. People not being treated for capacity reasons was also true. There have been countless documentaries looking at how hospitals are struggling to meet surgical deadlines, appointment times being delayed again and again. And now we are in the middle of a pandemic with an NHS that was already struggling and so it's all just so much worse. Surely that's just obvious? Why is it 'hard to believe?' It's a global pandemic!

Boris doesn't care about the NHS; in his new year speech he said, "We thanked the NHS for their work by banging saucepans." What a reward! He and his government have destroyed it slowly over the last 10 years. He's not making his statements about supporting the NHS because he wants to; he just doesn't have a choice.

When you say 'the media' I think that depends which sort of media you are talking about. Newspapers? Which ones? TV News? Which one? Some are better than others. But I repeat that they under-report the situation with the NHS, particularly some media outlets who try to make Boris into a hero who has saved us from the greedy EU and is responsible for the breakthroughs with the vaccine. He is very, very protected from scrutiny mostly. So yes, I agree with you, the media is biased but not in favour of the NHS, quite the opposite.

There are many ways of finding out the truth of what's happening in hospitals. Read the posts on here, too many for you to say they are all 'crying wolf,' too much detail for them to be fabrications. Look on Twitter at NHS staff groups. Read the reports by Jeremy Farrar for Sage. Follow Wellcome Trust on Twitter. All good, unbiased scientific information.

Most of all, open your eyes! Tens of thousands of people have died and many more will die if we don't act now.

@TheLittleDogLaughed

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/01/healthcare-workers-covid-conspiracies-coronavirus-deniers?utm_term=755c2f1185663e3ce7110c2df73b8d2b&utm_campaign=BestOfGuardianOpinionUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=opinionuk_email

This is an interesting article for any deniers on this thread.

This is a great article, thank you for sharing

That is indeed an interesting article and I note the affiliation of the author. An early sentence is along the lines of "we go to work on packed trains rammed with maskless travellers". It therefore pushes responsibility for the pandemic onto the general public and makes a sweeping statement based perhaps on one journey and one route.

My DH has commuted into London since September (key worker). The trains to Victoria and London Bridge have been far less busy than usual and almost without exception people have complied with masks and sd. The tube he reports was getting busier in November but nevertheless people were complying with masks and as far as possible with sd.

‘Staffing is proving much easier than thought because the high level skills aren't needed’

Yeah any random can prone a ventilated patient. Piece of piss.

That's a good article @TheLittleDogLaughed.

The crying wolf analogy is no analogy at all and utterly laughable. Crying wolf means repeatedly lying then not being believed when you tell the truth. The NHS have not repeatedly lied, they have told the truth about the dreadful state of affairs all the way through, with chronic underfunding and cuts over the last 10 years especially. Do you, those who call this crying wolf, think that these stories were made up? Because that's what you're saying now.

They were telling truth and they are telling truth now. And those who bang on about how every winter is hard need to seriously think about whether you understand basic maths. Here, I'll lay it out for you:

Usual NHS difficult winter: often overwhelmed

Usual NHS difficult winter + covid19: often overwhelmed + covid19.

Use critical thinking please.

That article is very good. I disagree 100% with this part and would say it very much depends on area, or so it seems

“My GP is still closed, so I have to go to hospital.” Your GP’s office is open. It has had to adapt to an airborne virus to protect you and its staff, but it remains open. They may triage you over the phone. If you need to be seen and examined they will organise this.

Our GP surgery a couple of months back now (so not even 'in the thick of it' so to speak) point blank refused to see my elderly frail mother in law..she was repeatedly denied talking to a doctor at all and was told by the receptionist that it doesn't sound like a problem, but if it gets worse go to A+E. It was a chest infection, which she tends to get quite regularly so she knew really what it was and knew it would get worse. Ended up in A+E and got antibiotics IVed a week later. But, from experience, had she just been examined and given the antibiotics at the time, its unlikely she would have ended up at hospital at all (though she does on the odd occasion to be fair, maybe 1/10 times). A&E staff were lovely with her she said, however, were very angry at the doctors and apparently threatened to send them a letter..not sure how often that happens? Doctors have not improved since. I accept many GPs will be doing their very best, and my dad says his surgery is massively BETTER with the way they are working now. But mine appears to be effectively 'closed'. Even to a 70 year old woman with lifelong chest issues who gets regular chest infections and is extremely frail and a few other issues too

Also I agree, crying wolf doesn't work at all here. NHS has been at breaking point for many years now,and winter almost breaks them regularly. This though, has pushed it from almost breaks, to has broke I think. As much as my sister says where she works is pretty dead compared to 'usual' (which I do find a bit odd as we are a high area for it apparently, though nowhere near london levels, but we also kind of live in the middle of nowhere so not as many people overall), they are still having huge issues as sometimes having to manage on 50% or less staff. She said she had a shift where she did 14 hours without a break at all as there was only her and 2 others, where usually there are 6 (though apparently, they all think this should be raised to 8...at normal times!). The hospitals having to deal with excess patients, AND the staff shortages?! Fuck knows how they are managing. As she is close to breaking point now, and isn't having to deal with loads of extra patients!

In no sure if anyone has mentioned the blog No More Surgeons www.nomoresurgeons.com/
It started as an online diary in March by an intensive care consultant

RosesAndHellebores I also commuted last year into London Victoria, in between being furloughed, I agree that trains and tubes were quieter but I saw a lot of people without masks, especially towards autumn. It was almost as though some commuters had got bored of it all. Mostly younger generation, mostly male, rarely have I seen anybody over 30 without a mask. I appreciate that this is just my personal observation and not a universal fact.

mamabluestar very good blog, yes.

@Doublefaced

‘Staffing is proving much easier than thought because the high level skills aren't needed’

Yeah any random can prone a ventilated patient. Piece of piss.

If you read my whole comment, you will see where I explained that STEP DOWN CARE is proving easier to staff due to not needing the high level skills which things such as probing and ventilation care need. You have understood the opposite of what I have written.

The boy who cried wolf is about a boy who lied and so wasn't believed when it was real.

Using that as an analogy makes it sound like you are calling the NHS liars in the past. Which is unacceptable.

I find this scary because I know how much trouble the nhs was already in even before this. In June 19 I was taken by ambulance to hospital in the middle of the night and given morphine at home and en route because they could see I was in agony.

In A&E I was shoved in a bay and ignored for about 8 hours other than an angry seeming nurse trying to get me to vacate my trolley and go sit in a plastic chair in A&E which I couldn't do because if I moved I was in agony. Eventually someone examined about 9 hours after arrival and upon palpating my abdomen I started vomiting truly green sick and screaming in pain.

I had a twisted and herniated colon which can be, and often has been, fatal. When they finally examined me it became clear and everything went into emergency stations - ultrasound, cat scan and whizzed to theatre all whilst screaming in the worst pain I've ever had.

Had to have open surgery and half of my colon removed. Had a week in hospital, got discharged without any aftercare or advice for managing because as the OT explained she'd been told she had to release 10 patients by x o clock

Was meant to have a follow up appointment with surgical team within six weeks - never happened no matter how myself or GP chased. Ending up 6 months later having hideous side effects and GP chasing up and desperately trying to get me to see my surgeon or be referred onto gastro to no avail. Took a further 4 months to get an appointment with my consultants registrar (who was much nicer than him) and then a further 10 weeks to get a colonoscopy after which I was meant to be followed up but surprise no appointment ever came no matter what I or my GP did. Finally got permission for doctor to treat me as if I had dx x and prescribe the treatment for that.

This is not nhs bashing this is just pointing out how fucked hospitals were even before all of this and even in life or death emergencies.

I can remember my GP and I consoling each other about what it was like to work in a public services jobs where you have massive responsibility but funding and services have been cut back so far that you cannot do the job you signed up for and just spent your life desperately trying to look after the people in your care despite a brick wall of obstacles.

NHS, education, mental health services have been slashed for over a decade and were at breaking point even before a pandemic.

Lots of us who were working in the NHS at the time austerity was brought in tried to get the message out to the public about the damage it was doing to the NHS. Unfortunately a lot of people seemed to agree with reducing funding to the NHS, and staff were told to stop moaning as they’d had it good for years with “gold plated pensions” blah blah oh and apparently those of us in the NHS were wasting money and resources day in and day out, and if we weren’t so bloody wasteful the NHS could easily manage on less money.
I can’t help thinking those same people now are the ones so fucking indignant, and so fucking shocked, that our hospitals can’t treat a pandemic and provide all the rest of the healthcare that the public needs and wants.
Well who would have thought that under resourcing your healthcare system might just come back to bite you on your arse eh???

@missyB1
Agree completely.

Spot on @missyB1

My MH outpatient appointments got cancelled for a few weeks a couple of years ago because there was an in patient crises.

The irony did not bypass me nor my psychologist!

@missyB1 I wish I could agree but I started my family in 1994 and have had to listen to so many HCPs complain about how busy they were. Back in 1994 every community midwife (all 6 who came from day three to day 10) whinged about how overworked they were whilst telling me their life story whilst drinking my tea and missing 1. Symptoms for retained placenta and 2. Symptoms for mastitis. Couldn't really see their problem tbh. And so it went on. The DC had 4 hospital admissions and there was more chat than work as far as I could see. It's a shame and detracts from HCPs who do care but I haven't seen much elbow grease over the last 25 years but have heard far too much squalimg about blokes and stuff emanating from the nurses station. It's quite shocking from the other side you know.

@RosesAndHellebores
You have anecdotes from the odd encounter with healthcare workers. I have 26 years of experience as a nurse and now married to a Doctor who has just about had all the love and passion for his job knocked out of him by the last 10 years. And yet here he is up to his neck in the fight against Covid, still slogging his guts out. That is dedication, professionalism and an enormous sense of responsibility. Qualities I see in virtually every healthcare worker I have ever met.

You may call them anecdotes, I call them hard and deeply unpleasant experiences of the last 26 years. I could have provided a great deal more information, experiences but chose not to.

@RosesAndHellebores I'm a frequent patient (at least once a year for two weeks or more) and I disagree with you. On the whole what I've seen through my life is staff who work their socks off and go the extra mile to help patients who are distressed. I've also seen staff on their knees because of cuts meaning they are trying to do two or more people's jobs, yet still retaining compassion in the midst of it. Sometimes they break. And occasionally you get a bad egg, of course you do, I've seen a few shockers. But overwhelmingly what I have seen is people doing their best within a difficult situation, people who care and give more than their all. And I am so grateful, to nurses who have sat and held my hand when I thought I was dying, and who chased up doctors for pain relief, and who chatted with me when I was lonely and sad and fed up.

And now I see these people facing the greatest struggle and most hideous circumstances they've ever been in with their working conditions, and I am livid that people repeatedly minimise and deny and bang on about tiktok dances and empty hospitals.

@missyB1

Lots of us who were working in the NHS at the time austerity was brought in tried to get the message out to the public about the damage it was doing to the NHS. Unfortunately a lot of people seemed to agree with reducing funding to the NHS, and staff were told to stop moaning as they’d had it good for years with “gold plated pensions” blah blah oh and apparently those of us in the NHS were wasting money and resources day in and day out, and if we weren’t so bloody wasteful the NHS could easily manage on less money. I can’t help thinking those same people now are the ones so fucking indignant, and so fucking shocked, that our hospitals can’t treat a pandemic and provide all the rest of the healthcare that the public needs and wants. Well who would have thought that under resourcing your healthcare system might just come back to bite you on your arse eh???

Spot on. I've been told I should be grateful I have a steady job. And I am. But it's getting more and more stressful, it's overwhelmingly busy all the time. I didn't have a pay rise even in line with inflation for 10 years. My income has effectively been cut year after year and my job has got more and more difficult. Right now i dont know how much longer i can keep going. And to be told were making it all up? Insulting in the extreme.

I am glad you have had good experiences @Madhairday. I have not. I have had to advocate for dc in pain with nurses who all too often have been squealing at the nurse station about holidays and blokes. On one occasion I had to look after Dd and a little girl whose mother didn’t stay after her arm was reset because nurses were too busy gossiping.

I have been deeply shocked too often. Perhaps me and mine haven’t been ill enough. Not least by the heavy handed ness and general can’t be bovvered attitude.

Perhaps it’s all the fault of management - don’t know but I am too often shocked by what I see.