Hospital staff, tell us the reality

[Ihateme]

I’m am so fed up of seeing people comment on here that schools should be going back, that people should not be reporting mass gatherings in tier 4, how dare people begrudge a child their birthday party etc...

The hospitals are in a worse state now than they were during the first peak. Would any doctors or nurses care to confirm this? Maybe then these Mumsnetters will get the message.

I have a friend here in the US who works as a Registered Nurse in Critical Care, coverted to a COVID. She has been pulling 16 hour shifts for weeks now. She goes home weekly to do her laundry, but sleeps on a cot at her hospital. They have closed their maternity ward to convert that to COVID care. Maternity cases are being handled for the time being by a small private hospital that is now taking only maternity cases from other hospitals that have also converted their maternity wards to COVID wards. She posts on a liberal news site here in the USA, and her posts are gutting. I don't know...one of their nurses suicided not too long ago...too much for too long.

And people here balk at masks and social distancing .

I'm 51, overweight and already had CFS, so I wasn't without vulnerabilities. But a lot of sufferers had no reason to think it would happen to them, as they were previously young and fit

The two people I know with long Covid are women of 28 and 32 who became ill in March. Both are slim, fit and healthy, non smokers.

One, a teacher, is only back to work part time after 8 months.

The other, an accountant, has had to rent out her flat and move to her parents house 50 miles away so they can look after her. She is now able to work very part time ( remotely ) but she’s exhausted.

Both of them can do little except work and rest and they don’t feel they are getting better. It’s no life for them.

Neither were hospitalised so won’t show up in any ICU admission or death statistics. But they feel their lives have been ruined and can’t see any future. Yes they are glad to be alive but devastated at losing their health.

My hospital had one available bed left yesterday.
More ICU admissions with covid.
Wards shit because of covid.
A lot of staff of or isolating.
This feels worse than last time because we saw it coming. Winter is already hard and challenging in the over utilised and under funded NHS, but this is just the nail in the coffin. Also, all the healthcare staff are demoralised and exhausted. Done in. So yeah, it’s bad. Really bad.
Hope the vaccine helps and we can turn a proper corner soon, in meantime if you can stay home. Do it. Wish I could.

*wards shut is what I meant.
Staffing will as always be shit, so maybe it was a Freudian slip.

@C0NNIE

I'm so sorry to hear about your friends, that's awful to hear. I'm not such a surprising case, but I'm an adopted mum with two DDs of 11 and 8. The pressure on my DH has been too much, and he ended up off work with stress, though he's recovered now thankfully.

Northern hospitals have been in the shit since Nov, and now SE hospitals are in the same boat it's big news. There's been a media blackout on what's really been going on for months.

A year or so ago a doctor at the London Hospital sounded off about the number of stabbing injuries he was seeing. Trump ran with this as evidence that East London's streets were a lawless jungle with the (evil, Socialist) NHS drowning in rivers of blood.

Anecdotal evidence can be as misleading (and wilfully misinterpreted) as statistics often are.

If deaths throughout the country were 900+ today (mid April figures but with a Christmas lag) and if those 900 are now more evenly spread around than country than the London centric figures in spring, can someone please explain why hospitals across the whole country are supposedly in crisis?

God it's awful reading all of these accounts from you all, but thank you for taking the time to post. I can really see why morale is so low, you must be on your knees. I just wondered if you are seeing any of the money that has been raised for you by Colonel Tom? Is anything actually being done to raise morale? Is there anything we can do?

@RosesAndHellebores

If deaths throughout the country were 900+ today (mid April figures but with a Christmas lag) and if those 900 are now more evenly spread around than country than the London centric figures in spring, can someone please explain why hospitals across the whole country are supposedly in crisis?

It’s about acuity. We have not needed as many critical care beds and have never had as many NIV patients as now. That’s on top of the usual emergency admissions (although seasonal flu is down a bit).

Hospitals are less about death and more about keeping people alive.

@exaltedwombat

A year or so ago a doctor at the London Hospital sounded off about the number of stabbing injuries he was seeing. Trump ran with this as evidence that East London's streets were a lawless jungle with the (evil, Socialist) NHS drowning in rivers of blood.

Anecdotal evidence can be as misleading (and wilfully misinterpreted) as statistics often are.

Skynews and the bbc didn't report that we were a lawless jungle though did they...?

Piss off with false equivalence.

@Kidsaregrim

I don’t work on a covid ward, I work in maternity. It’s horrible, we have our own covid ward. We see people regularly in the community with covid because antenatal and postnatal appointments are still going ahead.

We have very little regard given to us, oh your maternity you don’t need lateral flow kits etc, even though we see a huge number of positive women (but people think covid gives a free pass to pregnant women).

You go into a home and ask why little Johnny is home from school and are told “oh he is isolating as he has the covid” and you didn’t tell anyone? As HCP’s we don’t get the respect that we could potentially go home to vulnerable family members.

The NHS is notorious for bullying, imagine that on top of covid, many staff off because of self isolation etc, many more off because they can’t cope with the bullying and mental exhaustion of being treated like absolute shit!

So many amazing people have generously in the first wave, what the media and nhs bosses did not tell people is that we wasn’t given lunch breaks to go and get the food, the office dwellers (ie band 8’s and above) would never think to go and get us some food, but they would come and check the checks had been done and shout us down if we had been to busy to check the equipment that day!

We have an amazing vaccine, we are pouring doses down the sink because of the shelf life and people not coming for the vaccine, god forbid we give that vaccine to our colleagues - nope you are not elderly and do not work in a care home so are not allowed so you watched it binned in front of you.

Morale is SHIT! Support is SHIT! Managers are SHIT! The job is SHIT!

They will not have staff left once they have worked us to the bone then beaten us until we work some more until we have nothing left!

If your trust is pouring vaccines away you need to report it because it is absolutely and totally against guidance. Follow whilstleblowing procedures. None should be wasted. All excess doses should be offered to frontline workers and in most of the country that is exactly what is happening. I am astounded. We have people coming into centres at very short notice to ensure no dose is lost. A hospital certainly shouldn't have wastage.

@gingas

People keep going on about 'facts'. Where are you getting YOUR facts from exactly? The media?? PLEASE.Do you simply turn on the Beeb and take it all as gospel? I hope not. I will say that I'm very confused by it all. Because I read/listen to everything I can, from as many media outlets as possible (in an attempt to be INFORMED). So l kind of envy those of you who clearly know what's going on without really thinking, and harshly judge those for suggesting things/having opinions other than your own. But...having studied 'the 'news' as part of my degree and having worked as a journalist, I'll say this: DO NOT BE SO NAIVE AS TO THINK THE NEWS IS 'HONEST'. I could go on about that, but anyway... My brother is coming to the end of having Covid (at least he tested positive for it just before Xmas, as has his wife; kids are fine) He's 56, is mostly healthy; normally doesn't get colds, flu etc, but said it was like a bad flu for 10 days. He doesn't understand why the world has been shut down for this. I'd argue to him that that not everyone might get off so lightly. But actually it seems that most do... So wtf is going on? Why are so many more victim groups being created by the global shutdown to protect a tiny victim group? Another brother of mine who's a nurse argues that it's mostly to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed. So why oh why don't our governments pump the (seemingly printable, but let's not get into THAT) money INTO THE NHS and get back to some sort of normality?? And why are intelligent questions and alternative opinions to the mainstream news being censored? Oh and did you know that viruses mutate? So, like flu, I imagine we'll have a few C-19 variants. We gonna hide forever? Or start pressuring governments to put money into nursing banks, field hospitals etc etc ? Cmon people!!! Stop watching the 'news' and write to your MPs, councils, GPs etc. Get the NHS more financial support. Oh and btw... not everyone on YouTube is a nutter, for all you judgers out there. Shane on you. Yes there are many loonies out there. But not all. Use your intelligence. Do your own research. Many reputable medical folk whose opinion differs from our government advisors just can't get a platform on the mainstream news. Ask yourself why (and no.. I'll remind you..the answer is NOT because they're nutters). Amen

I trust my BIL.

He's the bloke who if there is a major incident on casualty hes the first doctor on scene.

He's used to pretty horrific situations. Mentality he's very much capable of coping with bad situations.

Hes been in A&E for years. Hes a very good consultant.

If hes being caging and not wanting to talj about it and saying 'its BAD', thats not just anecdote. Thats professional experience and professional opinion.

Add that to the news reports from reputable sources.

And all the other accounts from people who really have little to gain from lying (unlike the conspiracy theorists) and you know what, i think im capable of forming an informed opinion rather than being in denial and spouting bullshit because i dont like lockdowns.

Hello and thanks for commenting everyone. I really welcome all the info I can have.
I'm genuinely sorry to hear what you and yours have all been going through. Of course, it's awful. And my warmest wishes to you all for recovery and better circumstances for all so badly affected as soon as possible.
But I can't help but ask, where do you get your figures from? Are you sure they are properly quantified as COVID being the cause of death?
And what are the seasonal flu figures?
Is there freely widely published info? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I want to know where your figures are from. And assume they're undisputable.
My problem is that there is so much disinformation on all sides (including, crazily, people who are paid to say whatever the payer wants them to, so I trust very little).
There are those who have suggested several drugs which apparently help with Covid symptoms. But according to the same spokespeople we see in the mainstream media, they don't work/matter/ etc.
And I read a few weeks back in a newspaper that after the various age groups/vulnerabilities etc had been vaccinated, finally it would be offered to pregnant women and children, provided it was safe. Safe?
So does that mean that the current groups being vaccinated (basically the elderly/care home residents) are pretty much guinea pigs?! Or am I misinterpreting what I've read?
My own family is divided in opinion on all of this so I'm just searching for answers...
I suppose we can only go by our own experiences etc but I just wish our governments would throw money at hospitals and nurses / medics instead of creating far more victims by way of little to know palliative (or other desperately needed) care; job losses; suicides; the elderly not getting to see loved ones; everyone treating everyone as a walking biohazard. It doesn't make sense to me.
Why has our NHS not been put at the top of the funding pile?
And what happens if and when the government quits it's financial support which could perhaps have been avoided if it had thrown the same amount of money at the NHS?
So many questions.
Respect and best wishes to you all.

I'm a mental health nurse on an older adult unit. Some have dementia, others have various mental health difficulties.

We're having to isolate dementia patients who have Covid to their bedrooms, but they don't understand why they need to stay in their bedrooms, so they keep coming out.

Covid is spreading across the wards like wildfire, despite our best efforts. Partly because when we're not in lockdown, we have to allow visitors (and in a MH hospital, often visitors are very beneficial for people's mental health), which leads to some asymptomatic patients (or someone who is infectious before they have symptoms).

We clean the communal areas as often as we can but it's not enough.

Staff are off isolating so we have to use agency staff, who are wonderful don't get me wrong, but they don't know the ward or our patients so more of our time is spent working to help them understand what they need to do.

On the other hand, we're starting to see people who are in crisis because they've been in lockdown, isolated and lonely, being admitted to the ward. People's mental health is suffering.

Covid is a living nightmare for our patients and their families, and our staff.

Unfortunately I feel the recent Tier 4 announcements were necessary (and maybe not even enough), despite the impact it's having on the nation's mental health.

Bring on the vaccine. We're basically all just hanging on by a thread because we're massively burnt out, and we're not even the ones facing dying patients day in, day out.

But I can't help but ask, where do you get your figures from? Are you sure they are properly quantified as COVID being the cause of death?
^And what are the seasonal flu figures?
Is there freely widely published info? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I want to know where your figures are from. And assume they're undisputable.^

Just fuck off.

I have read PHE stuff for months.

I can read data.

Ive no patience left for dickheads trying to undermine or discredit people who bother to pull their fingers out their arses or know where to look for reputable data.

Just because they are deniers trying to undermine reality and the integrity of the truth.

@gingas

I'm a doctor, and when determining the cause of death we look at various factors and we can write multiple causes of death, often recording one as the primary cause of death. We use our medical knowledge and judgement.

As an example, let's take Case A, where someone presents with Covid-19. They are otherwise healthy. They are put on ECMO ventilation but sadly we can't save them. We record the cause of death as Covid.

Another example, in Case B, we might have someone who was terminally ill with cancer, who caught covid and developed pneumonia and sadly passed away due to lack of oxygen. Yes, they were terminally ill, but they might have had another 12 months left in them, if they hadn't caught covid. On the other hand, if they weren't a recent chemotherapy recipient with reduced immune system, they might not have caught covid - so both illnesses have worked together to cause the death. We would then record both causes of death: Pnemonia caused by Covid and Cancer, with pneumonia and covid being in this case the primary cause, because that would be the reason they passed away that day. Cancer would be seen as a comorbidity in this case.

Alternatively, in Case C, if someone died in a car crash due to head trauma, and just happened to have a positive covid test 10 days ago, but in our view their lungs were not damaged or severely affected, we would record the primary cause of death as head trauma, but we also report that they died with a positive Covid test.

It's important to know that the figures for case A/B are reported by our hospital separately to cases such as C. And cases such as C make up a particularly small proportion.

@RedToothBrush - yup. Sea-lioning aplenty.

Fortunately on this thread the posts from the 'questioning' are dwarfed by those who are reporting their realities on the front line.

I particularly hate being told to 'do my research' by strangers on the internet. As an academic, it's literally my job. I've been 'doing my research' for the last 15 years and teaching other people to 'do their research' for plenty of those too.

This year it's pretty fucking abundantly obvious from all reputable sources that there's a BASTARD PANDEMIC going on. I didn't actually require the confirmation of my fit, 40-year-old husband catching the bloody thing and getting very ill, because I'm not delusional enough to believe that my anecdote(s) trump epidemiological data. But it definitely brought home to me that the virus shouldn't be underestimated.

RedToothBrush, can you please give me a link or a clue as to where this info you have is?
It was not my intention to insult you.
I'm just finding consistent and accurate info hard to find. And I have been searching.
That's mostly been my point.
It'd be more helpful to share than blow up at and insult one another.

[quote SchnitzelVonCrummsTum]@RedToothBrush - yup. Sea-lioning aplenty.

Fortunately on this thread the posts from the 'questioning' are dwarfed by those who are reporting their realities on the front line.

I particularly hate being told to 'do my research' by strangers on the internet. As an academic, it's literally my job. I've been 'doing my research' for the last 15 years and teaching other people to 'do their research' for plenty of those too.

This year it's pretty fucking abundantly obvious from all reputable sources that there's a BASTARD PANDEMIC going on. I didn't actually require the confirmation of my fit, 40-year-old husband catching the bloody thing and getting very ill, because I'm not delusional enough to believe that my anecdote(s) trump epidemiological data. But it definitely brought home to me that the virus shouldn't be underestimated.[/quote]

I'm sorry but I think you've got it all wrong...my hamster's uncle got COVID last week and was over it after one cup of tea.

So the whole thing must be wrong. I can't imagine that anyone in the whole world could have a different experience to my hamster's uncle.

Also...I mean what figures are you even using? I mean, I have access to the internet and all the threads on Mumsnet but despite my obviously incredibly thorough research that I keep banging on about (that is clearly much better than all the Doctor’s on here) I haven't come across all the reports on COVID and flu numbers that are in the public domain in weekly reports published by Public Health England.

My research is definitely still better than yours though just to be clear.

@gingas

RedToothBrush, can you please give me a link or a clue as to where this info you have is? It was not my intention to insult you. I'm just finding consistent and accurate info hard to find. And I have been searching. That's mostly been my point. It'd be more helpful to share than blow up at and insult one another.

Look on the Coronavirus topic on Mumsnet. Go to the thread about 'Data'.

There are many, many links there.

But also...weekly stats on flu and COVID are quite easy to find via Google on Public Health England's site.

Better than YouTube.

Hello and thank you for this, StopOvaryActing.
Why doesn't the media break this down?
Where are these scenarios broken down and easily accessible for the public?
I simply want to do my research.
Thank you

I recommend just following one news channel / media and stick to it. I only watch /listen/ read the BBC and find them to be most realistic although Laura Keunnsberg (aka Doomsburg) annoys me as she is sooooo depressing.

A friend of mine is a nurse at our local hospital and she told me 2 weeks ago that cases at local hospital have quadruped over recent weeks and there were 4 Covid wards with positive cases. She also confirmed she has received the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine which is good news as it means local people are now getting vaccinated.

Hope this helps a bit

So wtf is going on? Why are so many more victim groups being created by the global shutdown to protect a tiny victim group?

I wonder how your future self will judge you for taking this stance - and congratulating yourself on your intellectual superiority and media nous as you do so. I find it despicable.