“He wouldn’t be where he is if I hadn’t sacrificed my career”

[BooFuckingHoo2]

I am expecting a flaming for this .

AIBU to think this is often untrue? I know many men with stay at home wives and kids who, in all honesty, whilst happy to have kids (because the wife does all the wifework) would probably have been equally happy with either no kids or extensive wraparound childcare and an equally high earning wife.

I often see it trotted out on here “I sacrificed my career to look after our children” - but the for the majority of women (aside from some exceptions e.g. husband working abroad) I’m sure it was a welcome choice and not something they were strong armed into. In my experience (unless childcare costs eclipse the wife’s salary) the husband is usually indifferent (aside from the wankers who want a trophy wife) as to whether the wife works or not.

Equally “he wouldn’t be where he is in his career if it wasn’t for me”. I’m sure there’s a small minority of women who’ve accelerated their husbands career but I think for most, they’d have been the same with or without their wife, although granted possibly with no children or higher childcare costs.

AIBU?

@CayrolBaaaskin you said “ The uncomfortable fact is that these women facilitating men’s careers are facilitating the patriarchy and making it harder for working women.” Sounds like blame to me.

This is my life. My husband has never looked after our children. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would not be taking time off to look after poorly children or school holidays etc as his job is important . (Mine would be working in a supermarket). My job is to deal with the day to day affairs of the children and the house and he never gives it a thought. Hes never attended a medical appointment or the children, the dentist, parents evening, school plays. Nothing ...because of his important job.

@Leagueofgentlemenfan

This is my life. My husband has never looked after our children. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would not be taking time off to look after poorly children or school holidays etc as his job is important . (Mine would be working in a supermarket). My job is to deal with the day to day affairs of the children and the house and he never gives it a thought. Hes never attended a medical appointment or the children, the dentist, parents evening, school plays. Nothing ...because of his important job.

What happens when you get sick? Or you have an accident? Or if you need to go tend to your parents when they get ill or about to die?

@Leagueofgentlemenfan

This is my life. My husband has never looked after our children. He told me in no uncertain terms that he would not be taking time off to look after poorly children or school holidays etc as his job is important . (Mine would be working in a supermarket). My job is to deal with the day to day affairs of the children and the house and he never gives it a thought. Hes never attended a medical appointment or the children, the dentist, parents evening, school plays. Nothing ...because of his important job.

I think a lot of women are in this situation. What happens if you split? So many women end up without earning power or pension.

@Waferbiscuit - I agree. The uncomfortable fact is that these women facilitating men’s careers are facilitating the patriarchy and making it harder for working women. We need working patterns that that work for both sexes not to live in the 50s where marrying a rich man is the pinnacle of women’s achievement

Stop making it the women’s fault! Fucking hell.

My husband’s boss is very old school. He wouldn’t let DH have flexible hours to help with childcare, etc. In the past he’s been bollocked for taking phone calls in the car on the way back from a school run. So he stopped doing the morning school run and now I do it. How is his boss’s attitude my fault?

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@RandomLondoner - totally agree. We see it often on mn that women claim their dh couldn’t do his high earning career if they didn’t have a sahp (funnily enough those with lower paid busy jobs seem to manage). They act like they earn half his salary and often claim they do. But often their dh will have female colleagues juggling it all with a nanny or childminder.

I’m a single parent and while I paid my nanny fairly she doesn’t earn half my salary or deserve half my assets for doing her job. She gets the salary for the job she does. While there is an issue with devaluation of caring work my point here is a sahp is doing the same thing whether their dh is an investment banker or minimum wage worker. It is no more or less valuable a role because you have “married well” and we need to get away from valuing women in those terms.

Imo these traditional roles are not doing women as a whole any favours. It’s responsible for the pay gap and for women doing huge amounts of unpaid work. But it’s undeniable that like many things that disadvantage women as a whole, some women benefit from the patriarchy. Particularly those women who would never have earned much in the first place and get to claim they are earning half an investment bankers salary for looking after their own kids.[/quote]
Basically, you can’t be rich and have a family without a hugely unequal society that deliberately undervalues the role of the servant class that enable you to strut your stuff on the world stage by doing your caring for you. But still you can claim that because you are in a position to abuse your power and undervalue those keeping you in the position to which you have become accustomed, that you didn’t need anyone to help get you where you are, today - because you didn’t need anyone you cared about to get you there, only a succession of unimportant drones.

@RUOKHon - if your boss had been like that, what would you have done?

My guess is probably not accept it and get your DH to do all the school runs

Leagueofgentlemenfan I think your husband has taken an extreme view there. If you don’t mind me asking what does he actually do for his job?

Unless he’s abroad at all times, covering some school holidays wouldn’t affect his job in any way at all. Neither would the odd dental appointment or parents evening.

Genuinely interesting that the poster above with a mum who was a widow, chose not to work. For me maintaining my career is about ensuring that if something happened to DH I could still support my kids. Only so far life assurance goes and yes we have that too!

And I’m one of the rare breed where both me and DH work part time and share the load.

I’m a single parent and while I paid my nanny fairly she doesn’t earn half my salary or deserve half my assets for doing her job

But you are not in a lifetime contract with her for mutual support and benefits. Your nanny is doing part of the job of running a home and family life but not all of it, nor has she any obligation to facilitate your career or social life or other support.

While there is an issue with devaluation of caring work my point here is a sahp is doing the same thing whether their dh is an investment banker or minimum wage worker

Take money out of it for a moment. If one spouse is doing very long and unpredictable hours, has to relocate for promotions (sometimes between countries) then the impact on the spouse and children is much greater than if they are in regular hours and arrive home at a regular time done with work for the day. There is a material difference and in most cases whether the mother works or not she takes the hit career wise.

It is no more or less valuable a role because you have “married well” and we need to get away from valuing women in those terms

I agree we should not value women by their spouses. However that won't change whilst we live in a patriarchal society.

@CayrolBaaaskin

Confused by your critique of the pay gap that is with only a passing reference to the masses of female childcare workers on whom other 'important' people's career progression rests. They are exploited, undervalued and underpaid (1 in 8 earn less than £5 an hour). But meh, we don't need to worry or think about those women.

Re the post above about the boss saying doing a call in the car is unacceptable. (1) I wouldn’t have answered the phone (2) id have walked with my feet. You need to find an enlightened boss... and I’m on 6 figures and make both my home and work life work. You do need to be exceptionally good at your job and being senior helps.

It is blaming others for having a different family structure. I thought we might have moved away from such narrow mindedness.

Please remember that the tax system already favours both working.

I think it's important to remember that most women, no matter what their career situation, make sacrifices when they have children.

As a single parent I too have sacrificed my career and cannot really progress into something more senior as cannot work the hours/do the OOH activities --- and to add to that I don't have the income from a man to keep me afloat or provide me with any luxuries.

It is frustrating to hear women who have the luxury - and it is a luxury - of not working or working part-time by choice - complaining about their sacrifices, as they are really in quite a privileged position compared to others.

@Lemmeout

Yabu completely so. I didn’t realise how incompetent he was until I had missed a sizeable part of my career. It’s a sacrifice for definite.

But thats not what the op is saying.

Is your husbands career any better for your "sacrifice" ?

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@Uhohmummy - I’m not blaming women for the patriarchy. But we all have roles to play and we should take responsibility for our choices and their implications, both men and women.

If we have a society where high earning high status jobs can only be done with people with a sahp or no children then as long as women are default carers they will be disadvantaged. There will be patriarchy until we all take responsibility to dismantle it. You can’t just blame someone else and say “the patriarchy works for my family”.[/quote]
Or just stop having kids?

My husband’s boss is very old school. He wouldn’t let DH have flexible hours to help with childcare, etc. In the past he’s been bollocked for taking phone calls in the car on the way back from a school run.

the boss has a very outdated mindset particularly after lockdown which has forced many companies to embrace the new work. I'd also be reluctant to stay in a workplace like that unless the benefits were stratospheric.
DH is now looking at maybe being in the office 2 days a week, so Covid may have some positives for work/life balance.

@jangle33 agree but observe that men don't generally bother with this.

I was recently headhunted for a specific very high profile project at work which typically requires very long hours. I said yes if I can always put my baby to bed (he is breastfed) between 6 and 7. They wanted me enough that they said yes.

My DH was offered a big promotion and told he couldn't do it 4 days a week, he said no. They changed their minds and let him keep his working pattern.

But most men just don't care enough to push for flexible working. That is partly because women often just put up with it or actively prefer to do more at home

I can't see the kids in my family having kids. I imagine our family demographic looking like Italy on a small scale!

I agree sahm is a job with vastly different terms and conditions.

I think you make valid points OP but the women claiming this often feel pretty trapped.

Take me for example. I’m EXACTLY the type of woman you’re talking about.
Had a ‘good’ FT job but nothing near DH who is a few years older, prestigious career and a high earner. Got married, both really wanted a family (him even more than me), I intended to go back FT I really did.

Suddenly there’s this baby you adore and you never comprehended how attached you would feel. You look at the nursery fees and think about handing him over and think ‘this doesn’t make sense’ so before you know it DH is saying ‘well why don’t you just go PT?’ Because ofc it’s not an option for him to go PT, A) he doesn’t want to and B) he earns 3x as much as you. All the plans you had about heading back to your career just melt into visions of your chubby baby giggling and clapping at you and in the blink of an eye there you are, working minimal PT hours, or not at all, caring for the tiny love of your life every day and being spoken about like a second class citizen by everyone around you who doesn’t understand!

DH ofc starts to do less around the house, you’re expected to shop and cook because he’s pretty much sponsoring you to not work and you lay awake at night feeling like you’ve lost your identity and independence...but it doesn’t matter because all that matters is not having to hand your DC over to a stranger every day! So we say things like ‘he wouldn’t be where he is without me’ because we want to feel like we are contributing to our success as a family, like we’re not worthless.

Could we be replaced by some nanny for £10 an hour...maybe but honestly what mum needs that thought in her life. It’s already the most thankless job in the world ‘if you didn’t do it he could just pay someone else to’ is a shit and horrible way to think about it.

Or just stop having kids?

I think this is happening, more women are choosing not to have kids or having them later & having less.

@Ohalrightthen

Personally, i think people who's jobs are so full on that they require someone else to do 95% of the childcare have no fucking business having children.

I will never understand why women choose to saddle their poor kids with fathers who are functionally absent.

Yeah let's blame women for fathers being absent.

I think there is a difference in the age of the wife in question. Over 50's more likely to be actually true

But most men just don't care enough to push for flexible working.

I agree. The more men that push for this the better. When DH turned down the other job offer he said it was because his wife also works & flexibility was important for him. The company were pretty gracious & acknowledged it was an area they needed to do better on & asked him to get back in touch in the future if he was looking again.