Out of Control Dogs 😡😡!

[Heathercob]

Am I allowed to have a moan about a dog on the beach this morning that was completely out of control and not responding to the owners?
Was having a relaxing boxing day beach ride until it decided to try and attack Heather's fetlocks (ankles). Luckily Heather is a good girl, although I could tell that she was worried about it. When the dog finally went back to the owner, they didn't even put it back on the lead 😡😡!
I REALLY don't want to come off and potentially end up in hospital because someone doesn't bother to train their dog - especially at the moment with Covid about!

@thetemptationofchocolate - To be fair, horse poo generally doesn't have the toxins that dog/cat poo can carry. It makes great fertiliser once it's been rotted down and I use it on my garden to help things grow. But I wouldn't do the same with dog poo. They really are not the same thing at all.

You're right. They're not the same thing at all. Horse poo is produced in much larger quantities and much higher frequency. It gets washed into the water ways and causes serious pollution. So one horse has a significantly higher negative environmental impact than one dog.

Horse poop is much more bio degradable than dog poop. Firstly it is mostly grass/hay. Dog poop is full of nasties and can cause disease, this is not true for horse waste- it doesn't have the same environmental and health consequences as dog poop does. That's because horse waste is between 70 percent and 80 percent water, which is quickly absorbed into the ground. More people own dogs than horses and you are more likely to step in dog shit than horse shit, as it’s enormous and easier to see! 🤣

Horse poop is much more bio degradable than dog poop.

Absolutely. However, horse crap leeches into ground water and pollutes. A single horse creates significantly more crap than a single dog.

From a health perspective, yes, handling dog crap is more dangerous than handling horse crap but I was not talking about that. I was referring to environmental impact.

Avoiding horse crap is possible on a wide pathway. However, on a woodland walk, for example, it can be pretty much impossible to avoid as it's spread over a wide area and it's not always possible to step off the path.

As a responsible dog owner, I always pick up my dogs' crap. However, I have yet to come across a horse owner who does the same. The level of pollution and health risk from my dogs' poo is, therefore, miniscule in comparison to that created by the average horse owner who leaves it to leech into the ground water and pollute.

You have a beautiful horse there OP!

I agree. People don’t seem to understand “under control”. If it doesn’t have perfect recall then it’s not under control!

I’m sorry but you are wrong. The environmental effects of dog waste far outweighs that of horse waste. Just because of its very makeup. Dog poop is full of heavy nutrient dense food that leaves nitrogens and phosphorus behind that leach into the eco system. Horse poop is, as I have pointed out, mainly water snd grasses and as such it biodegrades extremely quickly and easily leaving very little behind.

Horse manure is generally between 0.7 and 2% nitrogen depending on feed. Dog manure is generally approximately 7.5% nitrogen. Average daily output from a horse is many multiples than that from a dog. The maths aren't hard.

@Hotchocolatewithcream

If the beach OP went to is dog friendly she is exactly the same as every other entitled, selfish horse owner risking their and their horse’s safety

Sorry but I've read that as 'NO ONE CAN USE THE BEACH EXCEPT ME AND MY DOG, ANYONE ELSE THERE IS ENTITLED AND PUTTING THEMSELVES AT RISK"

The beach isn't for your dog. Horses, runners, children etc are just as welcome at the beach as you and your 'predatory animal' as you state
hmm
Your attitude is just down right bizarre
I’m going to try and explain this one last time then no more because we are just going round in circles here.

Some of the animals we keep as pets, like cats and dogs are predators.
People may like to humanise them and treat them as little furry children but they are predators.
Cats will show hunting behaviour towards to small animals, even if they don’t go all the way and kill them.
Dogs will show hunting behaviour towards larger animals, even if they don’t go all the way and kill them.
It is just who they are.

Put a budgie/mouse/hamster etc in front of a cat, most cats will try and kill it.
Put a rabbit/sheep/horse whatever infront of a dog and most will chase (hunting behaviour) and some will bite and try to kill it.

If you have a pet that is a prey animal, like a horse, you have an obligation to do what you can to keep it safe from animals that could harm it, like dogs.

So you shouldn’t take it to areas where you might reasonably see loose dogs, like dog friendly beaches or fields that are known to be very popular dog walking spots etc.

If you have a pet that is a predator, like a dog, you have an obligation to keep other animals that it may harm safe from it, like horses.
So you shouldn’t take it to areas where you might reasonably expect to see a horse, or if you do it needs to be leashed and close to you so it can’t chase.
Areas where you might reasonably expect to see a horse would be areas with bridleways or riding schools, pathways near riding schools where riders might be out hacking etc.

I am well aware that people are likely reading and thinking I’m an entitled cow who only cares for the dog.
But anyone who actually knows me will know I am for all animals and me saying don’t take horses to areas where you know dogs are about isn’t because I think dogs are better than horses.
It’s because dogs tend to chase and sometimes bite horses.
A very stressful and traumatic and dangerous situation for the horse and the rider and the dog and the dog’s owner if they get close to intervene.

Don’t take horses where you think there will be dogs and don’t take dogs where you think there will be horses.

👍

Perhaps I get what your saying because I’m not emotionally invested having neither a dog nor a horse but yes 100% what you said.

So you shouldn’t take it to areas where you might reasonably see loose dogs, like dog friendly beaches or fields that are known to be very popular dog walking spots etc

That rules out most of the countryside then! Even bridal paths are regularly used by dog walkers (I don’t have a problem with that provided dog is under control).

A lot of horses will lash out at a nippy dog, either kicking or trying to trample dog with their forefeet. Or they bolt, often throwing the rider. And a lot of riders wouldn’t hesitate to dismount and teach the attacking dog a lesson with their whip!

I think the dog got off lightly here!

No, the maths is l not hard. Many more people own dogs than horses. I live very rurally and see dog poo on a daily basis. Can’t say I see horse shit in the middle of the road very often, if at all. I suggest you do some googling on the environmental impact of both. It’s not tricky.

Start taking a polo mallet with you. Extra points is you can get the dog over the hedge

@Poorlykitten - perhaps try reading what I wrote rather than extrapolating to suit your agenda. I referred to the impact of an individual horse vs an individual dog, not the overall impact of the dog vs horse population.

Even if I never cleaned up after my dog (which is not the case, I always clean up), I, as a dog owner, will have a significantly smaller negative impact on the environment than a single horse owner who never cleans up after their horse (and I have yet to encounter a horse owner who cleans up).

I live rurally and regularly see horse shit in the middle of the road. It comes mainly from the farm in our road where they breed horses.

To ride a horse in a known, extremely popular dog walking area where you know large amounts of dogs will be off leash is irresponsible and stupid

Why should the dog owners get priority in a particular area, unless it is marked out as such? In my view, dogs should always be on short leads unless they are miles away from anyone else. It's not cruel, they don't know they're "supposed" to be exploring and running up to people and knocking them over!

We really do need gated dog parks. I know someone who owns one in Berkshire - there's a definite business opportunity there for anyone with land!

Most dogs have never seen a horse, they are not an easy thing therefore to train a dog to ignore.
Most yard owners would be not allow you to take a dog in to do some training and depending on where you live seeing a horse out and about may be a rarity

When my (much missed) terriers were puppies, I had a manager who had a beautiful, steady, gentle cob that competed in one-day events. Both dogs were socialised with this horse when they were very small, and both of them behaved perfectly near horses.

I was eternally grateful to my manager for making this possible, especially as the racehorses at a nearby yard do roadwork on our estate every morning.

Can’t say I see horse shit in the middle of the road very often

It's a daily event where I live, but I don't mind as if it's near my house I pop out with a bucket and trowel, pick it up and add it to my compost.

The neighbours may well think I'm mad, but I don't care.

I would think a person on a horse is the one who should turn back and take the damn horse elsewhere. I am fucking scared of them. A horse at the beach, seriously? Shittinf everywhere. Yuck no thanks

Horse shit is a fantastic fertiliser.

Dog shit is not.

The natural world, on the whole, seems to gain more benefit from horse shit than from dog shit. There's a reason people dig horse shit into their allotments.

@Hotchocolatewithcream

I’m going to go against the grain here and before I start I will mention that I used to be a keen horse rider, from about 5 to late teens.

Most dogs have never seen a horse, they are not an easy thing therefore to train a dog to ignore.
Most yard owners would be not allow you to take a dog in to do some training and depending on where you live seeing a horse out and about may be a rarity.

it is common knowledge that dogs will attack sheep and fields that contain sheep are usually signposted and obvious so they are generally, luckily, very easy to avoid or walk through with the leash clipped on and short.

Dogs will often chase and harass horses much like sheep but unlike sheep they can pop up where you don’t expect them and because most dogs have never seen one they are a new and novel thing that the dog won’t have been trained to ignore.

I’ve come across horses three times with with my dog, the first time she was leashed at a fete and unbeknownst to me there was a horse there for pony rides and the owner was exercising it, my dog ran and spun with such force at the sight of the horse cantering its a miracle she didn’t injure herself.

The second time she was, thank god, on lead.
Usually, it’s a place where I have her off the lead.
The horse was in a spot where I walk at least 3 days a week and have done for the past 6 years or so.
You would never in a million years expect a horse to be there and I dread to think what would have happened had she been loose.

The third time I saw two in the distance, different area, i had time to quickly leash her before she spotted them.
Again, an area I very regularly walk, never seen a horse there and wouldn’t expect to.

It’s a very popular dog walking spot, it’s especially popular for off leash exercise.
This is common knowledge.

To ride a horse in a known, extremely popular dog walking area where you know large amounts of dogs will be off leash is irresponsible and stupid.

Dogs are predatory animals, they will chase animals like sheep and horses.
If I know there are sheep and horses in an area I will avoid or opt to leash her.

It really angers me when horse owners think they are entitled to ride in places where you wouldn’t expect them to be, places where you expect loose dogs to be.

No.

It is not up to other people to modify their behaviour because of your dog. Your dog. Your responsibility.

"It really angers me when horse owners think they are entitled to ride in places where you wouldn’t expect them to be, places where you expect loose dogs to be"

I have neither a horse nor a dog. I can't think of any public space where I wouldn't expect a horse to possibly be.

I expect both dogs and horses to be under the control of the human with them.

It would be nice if owners would take the trouble to train their animals so that use of a lead or leading rein is not necessary, but if having the animal on a lead or leading rein is the only way to keep it under control, then that is what should be done.

@annevonkleve

To ride a horse in a known, extremely popular dog walking area where you know large amounts of dogs will be off leash is irresponsible and stupid

Why should the dog owners get priority in a particular area, unless it is marked out as such? In my view, dogs should always be on short leads unless they are miles away from anyone else. It's not cruel, they don't know they're "supposed" to be exploring and running up to people and knocking them over!

We really do need gated dog parks. I know someone who owns one in Berkshire - there's a definite business opportunity there for anyone with land!

Completely agree!

@Yeahnahmum

I would think a person on a horse is the one who should turn back and take the damn horse elsewhere. I am fucking scared of them. A horse at the beach, seriously? Shittinf everywhere. Yuck no thanks

We live rurally and I can’t think of even one incident where a horse randomly ran up to people or other animals. Do back off!

@Hotchocolatewithcream

What utter bollocks Hardly.

So according to you dogs left to their own devices don’t typically chase and sometimes injure sheep and horses then..?
I think you’ll find a significant proportion do.

Knowing that dogs tend to chase horses do you think it wise then to take horses into areas not designated for horses..?
Areas with no bridleways?
Areas known for off lead exercise of dogs?

The OP hasn’t specified what sort of beach, I’ve said it twice and I’ll say it again, if the beach is a lead only beach or a no dogs beach OP is in the right, the dog either shouldn’t have been loose or shouldn’t have been there at all.

The areas I spoke about, you would not expect horses.
They are filled almost exclusively with dog walkers and off leash dogs.
No bridleways.
Why take a horse there?!
It is irresponsible and stupid.

Because unless the beach days 'no horses', she is entitled to ride there without being harassed.

Just as a dog walker, unless it specifies no dogs, is entitled to walk their dog there without being harassed.

It's the dog that approached the horse. Not the other way round.

I started a thread in AIBU after a rabid do GC owner shouted at me to put my children on leash when her dog ran over my child, hurting and scaring them.
That thread has shown very clearly how fed up people with out of control dogs everywhere.
We really need designated dog spaces and off lead dogs should be illegal. A large number of them are already because their owners are obviously not in control and their dogs are harassing and damaging other people and their property.

I started a thread in AIBU after a rabid do GC owner shouted at me to put my children on leash when her dog ran over my child, hurting and scaring them
That thread has shown very clearly how fed up people with out of control dogs everywhere
We really need designated dog spaces and off lead dogs should be illegal. A large number of them are already because their owners are obviously not in control and their dogs are harassing and damaging other people and their property
Don’t tell lies.
EVERYONE on that thread was in agreement that dogs should be under control and the dogs owner was an arsehole.
Then you went off on a rant about you are going to spray dogs in the face and hit them with sticks.
Your thread is vile.
Advocating stoning, hitting, kicking, even providing links for the best sticks to assault dogs with.
I hope it gets pulled.

I like the idea of gated dog parks
it sends a message that if you want to acquire a large breed dog which needs off lead exercise you should make sure that you are near to one of these parks and that you can afford to use it

I completely agree! And I have 2! They're not the best trained dogs but they're also not vicious, they're loud and boisterous and we love them like that, however we completely understand that not everyone does. If they are ever off lead it is only if my husband is around as they don't respond to my voice outside (I'm not the loudest shouter 😂) but they do for my husband, it's just responsible dog keeping, if you have control great, if you don't, KEEP THEM ON A LEASH! I have no problem admitting I can't control them off leash as I'd rather people judge me than me watching my poor dog being put to sleep because it jumped up and caught someone, like I said not vicious but accidents do happen if your not in control.