I’m not a teacher but......

[Comefromaway]

I think it’s time you went on strike.

The government clearly don’t give a toss about you, our kids & subsequently our families.

My daughter is so stressed about the school/college environment. Everywhere she’s being told that she can’t do this that and the other because people are dying. But she’s expected to go into college and have her normal classes with overcrowding and no effective mitigation.

Medical officer woman has clearly not been into a school. The teachers & students are dropping like flies.

[quote Wheresmykimchi]@PurpleDaisies. Good for you.

Tell that to a vulnerable teacher terrified. I'm getting fed up with this alright jack attitude.[/quote]
No need for that. I’ve said that schools need to be safer and should take measures to protect staff better. I just don’t think that priority for teachers solely based on occupation is the right way to go. Those who are vulnerable will be further up the list because of those vulnerabilities.

Discouraged isn't not allowed though, is it?

It’s not just discouraged though, the guidance actively says not to. My school is still dealing with parents suing us over the A Level results debacle (got As but wanted A* and refused Autumn exam) when originally, the CAGs were never to be seen by parents/students as the govt said the algorithm would be used and students could sit the Autumn exam as the alternative.
Obviously, as soon as Gav announced CAGs were to be used, the govt washed their hands of dealing with it.

Cue scores of parents angrily approaching schools demanding a raise in their CAGs and refusing to sit the Autumn exam.
Like UsForThem, there was a nasty FB group set up for this to encourage and incite awful behaviour towards teachers who were also doing everything they could at the time to welcome students in Sept in vastly different conditions but hadn’t to waste hours gathering data over two years for this.

It is cases like this that mean most Heads will follow the govt guidance to the letter so that they can avoid these law suits.
If the govt made one simple change in the guidance, this wouldn’t be an issue.

But the anti mask wearing UsForThem crowd now have too much influence to ever let that happen, which is so so sad.

Discouraged isn't not allowed though, is it?

They are to be avoided in the classroom as they interfere with teaching and learning. A head wanting to come and do a learning walk and deciding your lesson was inadequate as they said they couldn’t understand what you were saying because of the mask, might easily be the next step.

It is very difficult to go against a head telling you what the DfE say should be avoided. I am very cross that we should have to-why can’t the guidance just recommend masks are worn inside, like everywhere else in the country?

I accept your point purple but, out of interest, what do you think my DH should do until he gets the vaccine in let's say- April?

No need for that. I’ve said that schools need to be safer and should take measures to protect staff better. I just don’t think that priority for teachers solely based on occupation is the right way to go. Those who are vulnerable will be further up the list because of those vulnerabilities.

True but we are not on any list anywhere in any phase, yet NHS clerical workers working from home and social workers (many working from home and not doing visits) are?
The blanket all or nothing decisions in different jobs is baffling to me.

@ChloeDeckTheHalls

No need for that. I’ve said that schools need to be safer and should take measures to protect staff better. I just don’t think that priority for teachers solely based on occupation is the right way to go. Those who are vulnerable will be further up the list because of those vulnerabilities.

True but we are not on any list anywhere in any phase, yet NHS clerical workers working from home and social workers (many working from home and not doing visits) are?
The blanket all or nothing decisions in different jobs is baffling to me.

A huge number of NHS clerical staff are still at work. And those who aren’t need to be soon to deal with the overwhelming backlog that is emerging. Same with social workers. And given that a large proportion of social workers work with the very people at highest risk of hospitalisation and death from COVID i.e the elderly) it’s essential that they are vaccinated. You do yourself no favours by cherry picking professions that YOU believe to be less worthy.

In The Times yesterday A and E departments were complaining (quite correctly!) that their staff were not on lists for vaccines and they were being told to ring around to other hospitals - because admin staff had been somehow prioritised.

This does not make me feel at all confident that vulnerable teachers just need to 'wait their turn'.

@PurpleDaisies I agree , but the statement of most teachers will be OK is somewhat flippant to the teachers without health conditions who are still absolutely terrified in their work.

Oh goody, another thread to hide.

@Retiremental

‘Make a choice? Like what?’

What are your sick pay policies? How long can a teacher remain off sick on full pay?

That's not the point , is it.

Schools are a community. The kids need us. Where does that end by your logic? Half a department goes on the sick and then what? Same with nurses. Half the staff go on sick and people die. It isn't always about the money (although in answer to your questions , six months - but for most people I'd imagine their career prospects would dip significantly with a six month off sick because they didn't fancy covid).

I assume people who tell us to just make a choice don't work in either of those roles.

@Achristmaspudsskidu

Discouraged isn't not allowed though, is it?

They are to be avoided in the classroom as they interfere with teaching and learning. A head wanting to come and do a learning walk and deciding your lesson was inadequate as they said they couldn’t understand what you were saying because of the mask, might easily be the next step.

It is very difficult to go against a head telling you what the DfE say should be avoided. I am very cross that we should have to-why can’t the guidance just recommend masks are worn inside, like everywhere else in the country?

Is this in England? I've never heard of anything like this in Scotland.

Anyone who claims they can't hear what a teacher is saying because of a mask is a buffoon.

Yes, England.

A huge number of NHS clerical staff are still at work. And those who aren’t need to be soon to deal with the overwhelming backlog that is emerging. Same with social workers. And given that a large proportion of social workers work with the very people at highest risk of hospitalisation and death from COVID i.e the elderly) it’s essential that they are vaccinated.
You do yourself no favours by cherry picking professions that YOU believe to be less worthy.

No. This is what you have read into my post as NOWHERE did I say they shouldn’t be vaccinated but my point is why those roles and not teachers who will be going back to work a lot sooner in crowded classrooms with children at high risk of carrying the new strain of Covid? And you can’t see why I find that baffling?

My own cousin who is a social worker (brilliant job-really respect it) was shocked she got the vaccine, first jab anyway (aged 26) when she’s been working from home since March and will be for many months to come.

@Retiremental interesting that you criticise Chloe for saying we should have vaccines if the NHS working from home do yet you say that teachers should just either suck it up or go off sick if you really want to claim that NHS workers working with the elderly etc are more in need please remember that they have PPE and many of us work in close contact physically with children with needs with squiff all protection.

Is this a proven thing that getting Covid triggers diabetes?

Depends what you mean by “proven” - diabetes can often be triggered by attacks on the immune system. My otherwise healthy ITU nurse sister has now got adult onset type 1 diabetes following a positive test for covid antibodies.
Her consultant is convinced it was covid that triggered it, particularly as she was likely to have had a very high viral load.

I did wonder if you were in Scotland Wheresmykimchi as your guidance that changed a month or so ago is so much better than the one issued for England in regards to mask wearing. Thumbs up for that and would love the same

@ChloeDeckTheHalls

A huge number of NHS clerical staff are still at work. And those who aren’t need to be soon to deal with the overwhelming backlog that is emerging. Same with social workers. And given that a large proportion of social workers work with the very people at highest risk of hospitalisation and death from COVID i.e the elderly) it’s essential that they are vaccinated. You do yourself no favours by cherry picking professions that YOU believe to be less worthy.

No. This is what you have read into my post as NOWHERE did I say they shouldn’t be vaccinated but my point is why those roles and not teachers who will be going back to work a lot sooner in crowded classrooms with children at high risk of carrying the new strain of Covid? And you can’t see why I find that baffling?

My own cousin who is a social worker (brilliant job-really respect it) was shocked she got the vaccine, first jab anyway (aged 26) when she’s been working from home since March and will be for many months to come.

Because the NHS will always be lauded on MN regardless of role , yet teachers are expecting special treatment and should just get on with it or go off.

Like in the hubs , when children could

Oops sorry.

When children could attend a hub as the child of any NHS worker - even those openly admitting that both parents were working from home.

Teachers working in hubs and supermarket /cleaning staff were forgotten as we just didn't have space.

But it's not just the teachers at risk. That's what a lot of people fail to grasp. Ok the kids are relatively safe. Let's take the view even, that the teachers don't matter- what people aren't seeing is that the virus will be taken home by both staff and kids and thus infect the whole of the general public.
What is the point of all the other measure in place and all the restrictions we have to live under, if covid can't be contained because everyone in a school environment is spreading it? Madness.

@ChloeDeckTheHalls

I did wonder if you were in Scotland Wheresmykimchi as your guidance that changed a month or so ago is so much better than the one issued for England in regards to mask wearing. Thumbs up for that and would love the same

I'm obviously being ignorant on this so I apologise. Don't get me started on guidance being different across countries , as if the border is some magical force field.

@Jeremyironseverything

But it's not just the teachers at risk. That's what a lot of people fail to grasp. Ok the kids are relatively safe. Let's take the view even, that the teachers don't matter- what people aren't seeing is that the virus will be taken home by both staff and kids and thus infect the whole of the general public. What is the point of all the other measure in place and all the restrictions we have to live under, if covid can't be contained because everyone in a school environment is spreading it? Madness.

Quite.

The railing against the proposed closure of schools slightly early so that we could isolate before Christmas was quite a sight to behold.

'but what about our childcare???' and people want to call us out for special treatment.

I'm not keen on schools closing to be honest - it's is damaging children and it is not in their best interest and other key workers don't get a choice whether they are in contact with the general public or not either. I do think they should reduce hours for people in specific circumstances where there is one SAHP and they don't have children with additional needs in the family. That should reduce numbers. Parents should be able to take kids out of school for specific reasons (clinically vulnerable etc) without risking fines.

Parents do need schools to be open to enable working, and yes, school isn't childcare, but it enables people to work and their kids to not starve and live in a warm house in the middle of January! Lower income working families have been punished enough and you can't just shut schools down, and therefore stop people working without any support. What do people who want schools to be closed suggest for those parents who need to work? What would the alternative be?

I think the problem is the government keep saying schools are a priority but seem completely unwilling to actually throw any resources at us that might help.
They want us open. We want to be open.
Help us out - money for extra cleaning and supplies (the amount of teachers funding hand gel and soap is insane). Make mask wearing compulsory in all schools at least for adults so power crazy SLT can’t say no (I’m very lucky on this front but I know lots who are not).
Mass testing with money actually thrown at it not just given to schools to sort as another job.
I’m sure there is more but I’m brain dead right now.
They keep just telling us to do more and more but there’s no money for it. And increasingly no staff for it.

@Toastybutt

I think the problem is the government keep saying schools are a priority but seem completely unwilling to actually throw any resources at us that might help. They want us open. We want to be open. Help us out - money for extra cleaning and supplies (the amount of teachers funding hand gel and soap is insane). Make mask wearing compulsory in all schools at least for adults so power crazy SLT can’t say no (I’m very lucky on this front but I know lots who are not). Mass testing with money actually thrown at it not just given to schools to sort as another job. I’m sure there is more but I’m brain dead right now. They keep just telling us to do more and more but there’s no money for it. And increasingly no staff for it.

Having realised my ignorance (luck) on this issue with being in Scotland...

What would happen if you said to SMT no I'm wearing one?

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4944

Are children more susceptible to the new variant?

Yes, in comparison with the non-variant virus. Speaking at a press briefing, Neil Ferguson, director of the Medical Research Council’s Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis at Imperial College London and NERVTAG member, said that during the November lockdown in England there was a “general shift in the distribution of the virus towards children—for both the variant and the non-variant [virus].” This was expected, because of schools remaining open during the lockdown, he said, and among those aged under 15 there were slightly more cases of the variant virus in the community than the non-variant, though not significantly so.

But Barclay, who also sits on NERVTAG, said, “Let’s be clear. We’re not saying that this is a virus that specifically attacks children or is any more specific in its ability to infect children. But we know that SARS-CoV-2, as it emerged, was not as efficient at infecting children as it was adults. There are many hypotheses [as to why], but one is the expression of the ACE2 receptor that could be different in children. So if the [new variant] virus is having an easier time of finding and entering the cells, then that would put children on a more level playing field, if you like.”