To wonder why we always call doctors by their last name

[Loveandpeace56]

In any other profession this wouldn’t be the case. Even teachers do often refer to themselves by their first names but with a doctor this would never happen.

It is a boundary issue

With the exception of small children I address all my patients as title surname and I expect them to address me as Dr surname.

This is a professional encounter and therefore a pally first name terms tone is not what is required right before I ask you to strip off and touch you in places that in other contexts would be assault.
It sets the appropriate formal tone to use formal language.

My only exception to that would be if the patient invites me to use their first name and I'm afraid I still would not let them use mine.

The GMC judgements page is littered with Drs who either did fail to maintain a professional boundary or worse (from their POV) were perceived as having done so (very easy with language and cultural barriers). For everyone's safety formality is a must for me.
As a patient I feel safer if the Dr addresses me formally, wears suitable formal attire and behaves in a formal manner unless possibly the relationship has been very longstanding and they have my permission.

I also address my child's teachers as title surname and would not dream of doing otherwise. Again it is an indication of this being a professional interaction.

@RosesAndHellebores

It is reductive to use the patient's first name when the Dr expects to be addressed with a title. Nowadays when it happens I ask the Dr why. Sometimes some research indicating patients prefer it is trotted out. The research was published in 1982!

In my experience it's usually younger women Drs who do this.

I’d agree, but I’ve never had this - they always called me Miss P.

What @DougRossIsTheBoss said ^ In spades...

I work for four GPs and have done for 17 years. Some of the new partners are younger than me and I just can't bring myself to call them their first name no matter how many times they insist I do.
I think I was brought up with the idea that medical doctors are like god's and deserve utmost respect.
I have no idea why.

I know this is the general custom in schools, but there is so much that is wrong with this. Just look at the difference in status between these two titles. Equalising that status could be achieved were female teachers referred to as 'Ma'am' as opposed to 'Miss', and it's politer too. This is one thing the Americans have got right (and we haven't).

The history of this it that female teachers had to stop working once they were married, so female teachers were always Miss.

In my last school female teachers were always Madam (not ma’am, that’s for the nobility or Americans) and male teachers Sir which seemed much better. Once you got over the brothel references.

All the doctors I encounter introduce themselves by their first name. To the extent that I needed to phone A&E because orthopaedics hadn’t followed up on my dislocated elbow from the day before, and the only name I had for the registrar I saw was ‘Ben’. 😂

I don’t need a title etc to have appropriate boundaries. If I’m seeing a doctor, I’m there for their medical opinion. That doesn’t change regardless how they introduce themselves.

Plus I genuinely loathe being Mrs Surnamed. It’s not my title, but actually the key thing is that I’d much rather be addressed by my forename in any situation.

I’m a GP and I absolutely hate it when patients call me by my first name. I feel it’s rude and disrespectful (whether that is intended or not).

As I introduce myself that way, I don’t expect patients to call me by my first name and when they do, honestly it’s a huge red flag for me that this patient believes they know the whole of the discipline of medicine with a quick google better than I do (forget the medical degree and decades of post-grad experience and training) and is trying to alter the power dynamics in the consultation and tell me what to think/do/prescribe. It sets me completely on edge and I’m instantly on the defensive and thinking less about the person’s health issues and more in trying to manage the social interaction aspect of it so that they don’t inadvertently gain the upper hand in the consultation and force me into a position I’m not professionally comfortable with. I don’t think I have any airs and graces, and wouldn’t dream of making any friends or colleagues (whether other doctors/receptionists/cleaners, whatever) address me by my surname. In fact I don’t believe there is any other part of my life where I refer to myself or expect to be referred to this way. When I see my own GP, I’m quite happy to be called by my first name for example. However when it comes to a patient-doctor interaction I think it’s an important to have professional boundaries in place and I think being called Dr X helps with that. It’s about the role, not my personal preference as to naming conventions. Sometimes I have to say no to patients or disagree with their conclusions in the interests of doing my job properly, and I find that patients often seem to feel that you are somehow “friends” and therefore expect you to go out of your way, grant extra favours, or bend the usual rules for them somehow if you are on first name terms with them.

I do try hard to also address patients as they would wish, although it can be tricky as every patient has a different preference! In general younger patients prefer first names and older ones prefer being called by surnames but that doesn’t always hold true. I used to call most patients except very elderly by their first name, not sure why other than it’s how we were taught at medical school to try to build rapport with the patient I think (and it avoids the awkwardness of not knowing if it’s now Miss/Mrs/Ms etc) - until I had a conversation with a friend who said she hates that she is expected to refer to her doctor as Dr X but yet she is “Jane” and not Mrs X. I thought she had a fair point and I am much more conscious of this nowadays.

I think it’s relevant that I am female. In my younger days in particular (but still relevant now I am in my 40s), a huge part of insisting on using my title and not my first name with patients was actually nothing at all to do with the patient-doctor interaction and much more about being taken seriously by my male colleagues and superiors. I do advise all female junior doctors that I supervise to insist on being Dr X and move away from the first name approach that many of us are happy with at junior doctor level for that reason (indeed as a junior doctor I would have introduced myself as Dr firstname I think). Although I would also say that as a young female doctor it’s often difficult to get patients to take your professional advice seriously, particularly if they are older and male, and insisting on being Dr X helps with this too. Otherwise you have to call in an older more senior (often male) doctor to repeat what you have just said and it’s frustrating when the patient then accepts that with no difficulties, leading that older more senior (often male) doctor to think you are just weak and ineffectual at communicating with your patient, not appreciating how somehow the message comes across to the patient completely differently when they say it. Needless to say that sort of perception doesn’t do a lot for your career prospects.

Courtesy, professionalism?

Our GP’s refer to themselves as Dr Smith/Jones etc and have always called me as a patient as Mrs Smith/Jones etc. - It is a professional relationship.

I had to take one of my young children to the doctors for an examination. We had to have a chat about it being ok because they are a Dr. You don’t show your bum to Jane/Fred/Susan/Derek but when you have a problem you can show Dr .......... who will help you fix it. They were still lovely and kind but it gently reminded my nervous child this was someone who was there to help.

I am a hospital doctor (consultant) with a surname some people find difficult to say or remember, many of my longterm inpatients call me Dr First name.

I would add I agree with what someone said upthread that as a young female doctor it’s helpful to make sure you aren’t now mistaken for the nurse, nursing assistant or cleaner (it has happened). And I agree you can’t go about in jeans and a T shirt and insist on formal address too. I also agree that it is far more useful to patients to know they have been seen by Dr Green at A and E and not “Ben” 😂 So there are lots of reasons. But it’s true some doctors (especially men) prefer to be more informal these days and will actively invite patients to call them by their first name. Which is fine. I think take your lead from how the doctor introduces themselves. And we must be mindful of how patients want to be addressed also, as I have reflected on in my previous post. I hate to say it but I did realise at one point that I caught myself calling middle aged women by their first name and men by their surname, what can I say, it really was just ingrained intuitive sexism even though I’m a woman 🤦‍♀️

My dr introduces herself with her title first name last name, but if she calls back just her first name

But, I also see people for one-off expert medico-legal assessments and if they just call me by my first name on first meeting (after I have introduced myself as Dr Surname) then that tells me quite a bit about them...in fact their doing that forms part of the actual assessment in many cases...

Way back in the 1970s our GPs were a married couple so everyone from patients to reception staff to anyone else referred to them as Dr Anne or Dr Tom.

Consultants as a general rule use Ms/Mr rather than Dr.

No surgeons do, physicians use Dr. Obviously some of both become Professor.

@rachelbloomfan two quick points if I may please.

1. Are your patients' titles not clearly indicated on the top of their electronic record? If not why not?

1. Do you accept it is a matter of courtesy and equality to address another human with the same level of respect you expect to be afforded to you?

If a Dr (of any medical description) expects me to use their title I do not, in any circumstances expect them to use my first name. It is basic good manners and I am sick and tired of the following conversation:

"Oh hello Roses do take a seat, I am Dr Jones"
Usually I extend a hand and say "I'm pleased to meet you, I am Mrs Hellebores". Usually met with:

A blush and stammered "oh er call me John" (I've no wish to call you John, you have just implied I am a subordinate party in the stakeholder relationship).

The HCP eye roll.

They call me nothing for the rest of the appointment and I call them nothing.

Is not just about equality and good manners? I find it rather offensive to be addressed as subordinate to another human. I am 60 years old and have a professional job, a professional husband and a grown-up family and in no other professional relationship am I ever expected to address the professional adviser with more respect than they afford me. Oh but wait - I pay all of my other professional advisers directly. If they did not behave towards me as their client or an equal in the professional stakeholder relationship would I pay them in full and continue to give them my business - no if course not.

GP tend to use Dr LastName. Consultants we use first names usually. All the teachers I’ve known have used Mr/Miss Last Name, unless in a college in which case it is first names.

Curious as to whether those who have children in preschool/nursery refer to their teachers as first names or Mrs Last Name? Obviously depends on where you are, but at the place I work (attached to school), they use First Name for those working in preschool and Miss/Mr Last name for those in the school

Consultant surgeons are Mr/Mrs/Ms etc. All other consultants, including physicians and psychiatrists, are Dr.

@Diverseduvet

Because the title Doctor comes before the surname, not first name. So its always Dr.Jones not Dr.Josh

It doesn't always though. Dr and First Name is pretty common for GPs. Dr John etc. informally.

When I was growing up you usually called people mrs not their first name. I still do if it’s someone quite elderly.

In any other profession this wouldn’t be the case.

Really?

Professor Surname
Judge Surname
PC/Sergeant/Inspector etc Surname
President Surname

I detest the Dr Mary/Dr John business. It's a sham designed to sound more friendly but which continues to subordinate if the patients first name is used. Nobody is known as Mrs Diana or Mr Anthony.

I have no wish to use a Dr's first name but if they assume they may use mine whilst introducing themselves as Dr Jones they lose my respect just as quickly as a patient loses *RachelBloomFan's" respect if they insist on using her first name. It's about mutual respect and reciprocity.

@Stompythedinosaur

I think it's very old fashioned to call a doctor by their surname. I work in healthcare and I dont think this is the norm any more. Patients and staff use first names.

I'm perfectly happy with 'old-fashioned' and I'd prefer to be Mrs Ogg until I know you better.

@teaandcustardcreamsx

GP tend to use Dr LastName. Consultants we use first names usually. All the teachers I’ve known have used Mr/Miss Last Name, unless in a college in which case it is first names.

Curious as to whether those who have children in preschool/nursery refer to their teachers as first names or Mrs Last Name? Obviously depends on where you are, but at the place I work (attached to school), they use First Name for those working in preschool and Miss/Mr Last name for those in the school

At my DGC's nursery (attached to school) they were Miss X etc

At the playschool they attended it was first names.

I think it depends on the doctor really. I call most GPs at my practice Dr. So'n'so, but my main doctor I see every month is just called Paul.

Professors are usually called their first names now by staff and students.

Policemen are vocational and I cannot think of a circumstance where a policeman has ever assumed my first name may be used.

Judges' forms of address remain archaic but like Presidents they have done a little more to have earned the title than the average GP.

Further none of them, unlike Solicitors, Accountants, Architects etc., are likely to render me a bill directly.