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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say no to be my work colleagues advocate at her probation meeting?

46 replies

Littleideasbigbook · 22/12/2020 22:33

Background: started new job in July 2020, promotion, in NHS, new team. Two other new starters in my team (started before me, April 2020) are the same band. I work closely with them (their job 'feeds' my job) but have only met them face to face once as neither of them have been keen to come into the office (I had to be in the hospital, they could wfh).

Fast forward to now, one of them had her probation extended in October 2020, to be reviewed in January 2021 with specific instructions on how to improve her performance. It does seem she has tried very hard but obviously I have limited knowledge. We only know this as she shared with me and other woman who does same job as her. The management gave not mentioned it at all. We were supportive and listened and I advised her to join the union back in October. She didn't. She had a meeting this week and they have said she usn't meeting job requirements and is working two bands below. They have told her to bring a union rep or a colleague to the probation review in Jan but have been clear it is very unlikely her probation will be passed.

She has asked me to attend the meeting with her. My 6 month probation meeting is the day after. My instinct is that I will be shooting myself in the foot advocating for her. She said in her message asking me 'Will you be my representative, as in help take my side'. For more info she is 25 weeks pregnant and english is her second language. AIBU to say no? I had told her to join the union! I feel if I say yes, she will expect me to basically act like her lawyer and there is no way I can as I don't know all the information and I don't want to paint myself into a corner. Her managers are my managers. My instinct is to 'help' but my experience has taught me not to do that to my own detriment and I suspect she wants more 'help' than I actually can give. AIBU?

OP posts:
Original poster
Littleideasbigbook · 22/12/2020 22:35

Apologies for the typos. 12 hour days mean I am knackered!

OP posts:
HTH1 · 22/12/2020 22:37

No, she will drag you down and potentially stop you passing your own probation. There must be others who have worked more closely with her who could help.

MrsWooster · 22/12/2020 22:38

Repeat your advice that she joins a union, send her links to someone who may help if there are language issues and then step back...

Sapphire387 · 22/12/2020 22:39

As a union rep, I agree with you- she should have joined the union. Please don't compromise yourself in order to help her- it sounds like she is going to fail her probation whether you attend or not.

Lougle · 22/12/2020 22:39

You would be mad to. You can't advocate for someone when you have no real knowledge of their working practice. If you were desperately keen to help, you could say that you'd go as moral support/pair of ears, but that you couldn't speak on her behalf/in her favour because you don't have the relevant working knowledge.

ArosGartref · 22/12/2020 22:39

You told her to join the union. If she did, she'd have someone who could represent her without fear of retribution. I totally understand why you wouldn't want to do it.

Also, if she's not going to pass her probation in the NHS she must be rubbish. Don't get involved.

SimplyRadishing · 22/12/2020 22:40

Nope I'd give her a wide swerve on this

BornOnThe4thJuly · 22/12/2020 22:40

Definitely don’t do it, for all the reasons you’ve stated. Is it too late for her to join the Union now do you think? At the end of the day it’s not your problem, you can be sympathetic and supportive without causing yourself problems.

Original poster
Littleideasbigbook · 22/12/2020 22:40

It is too late for her to get union representation now. You have had to have paid you subscription for x amount of weeks and that deadline has passed. I haven't replied to her yet.

OP posts:
Confuzzlediddled · 22/12/2020 22:41

From experience of carrying out disciplinary hearings (we don't have a probation period) I believe you can't speak on her behalf, you can only be there as support. If you're not comfortable then don't do it, you've helped as much as you can.

Sn0tnose · 22/12/2020 22:41

I’d tell her that you’re still on probation yourself so don’t know enough about her role or employment laws and policies to be able to contribute anything to any meeting.

SatyajitRayFan · 22/12/2020 22:43

I wouldn't if I was in your shoes.
I would've said what you've said here - "there is no way I can as I don't know all the information".
(May be word it like - "I'm sorry I can't be your advocate as I haven't been close to your work and so don't know all the information".)

MajesticWhine · 22/12/2020 22:45

Say no. It is not appropriate when you have not passed your own probation and you don't know about her work, so unfortunately you are not the right person for the job.

TinaTurnoff · 22/12/2020 22:47

I would word it as ‘I’m not in a position to do so as I am within a probationary period myself.’

Don’t offer solutions or suggestions, you already did do in recommending she join the union, and if you make suggestions you risk getting a reply back with her doubling down in her reliance on you.

maxelly · 22/12/2020 22:48

HR person here, first things first the role of a support person in these meetings is only to provide emotional support, perhaps take notes for them, that's it. If you did do this you wouldn't be allowed to 'act like a lawyer', advocate for her or give your personal opinion on her performance even if you wanted to. That is the role of a union rep which she doesn't have. Mostly the support people just silently observe, maybe hand tissues if the person is upset etc.

So if you did want to do so I wouldn't worry too much about it compromising your own probation review or being led into saying more than you want to. It would be a kind thing to do for your colleague to support her in this way, but absolutely not something you should feel obliged to. Tbh given her pregnancy and English as a 2nd language, personally I would be allowing her to bring a family member or friend outside work in as her support person, if I was the HR person here, providing that person understood their role and didn't try and actively participate in the hearing. As she clearly doesn't want to join the union (and its too late now anyway, they won't represent her on a matter that pre-dates her joining the union), and there doesn't appear to be a suitable/willing work colleague, perhaps suggest she asks HR about this as an alternative?

Original poster
Littleideasbigbook · 22/12/2020 22:50

I feel for her because I know she is pregnant and needed to pass for Mat Pay etc but I can't throw myself or my DC under the bus. Plus she works in Data Analysis and I don't have a clue about how she should be performing anyway.

OP posts:
Lemmeout · 22/12/2020 22:51

Say no, you don’t want to compromise your own probation. I also don’t think you can speak for her anyway. It’s moral support.
Seems like she is hoping you will advocate for her. I’m sure that is not permitted.

Isthisentirelynecessary · 22/12/2020 22:52

It depends, I agree that you can’t go with her and ‘take sides’, that would be difficult for you and put you in a difficult position. You could however go as her advocate, helping with the language barrier. You could make it clear at the start of the meeting that that is why you are attending, and that you’re there solely to help her keep notes of what is said.

Her being pregnant is relevant, I wonder if HR know.

Many NHS organisations don’t have probation periods as it’s hard for someone not to pass it, your managers have to show very clearly the steps and training they put in in order to enable you to pass the probation, and show they were having regular progress meetings and target setting sessions etc if you are falling short. but, it isn’t your responsibility to represent her, so only do what you feel comfortable doing

Original poster
Littleideasbigbook · 22/12/2020 22:52

@maxelly thanks. Really helpful. You are right.

OP posts:
GreenClock · 22/12/2020 22:52

No way. Keep out of it.

It’s the wrong job for her obviously. She’d be better off elsewhere and the department needs someone more suited. No point flogging a dead horse.

hgaj · 22/12/2020 22:55

Agree you aren't in a position to advocate for her. You could agree to take notes/provide support. This link might be useful www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/problems-at-work/disciplinary-meetings/who-can-accompany-you-to-a-disciplinary-meeting/

domesticslattern · 22/12/2020 23:06

She has completely misunderstood the purpose of the meeting if she thinks she can take someone along "to take her side".That's not what happens at all. Sad

pinkdragons · 22/12/2020 23:13

You could offer to be a witness to the meeting, take notes for her and explain anything afterwards that she may have been unsure of. Offer some emotional support perhaps.
But advocate? No way. You don't know enough about her work or the requirements to do this. You are new as well.

I have been a witness for someone in a disciplinary meeting. It was literally taking notes & asking for clarification a couple of times on behalf of my colleague. I wasn't treated any differently for it but I do think my colleague got a fairer meeting because someone was there to witness it.

partyatthepalace · 22/12/2020 23:17

Absolutely not. I think she could possibly still get help from the union?

You could go as general support and just take notes as others have suggested but I sense you don’t want to, which is fair enough.

NotOfThisWorld · 22/12/2020 23:24

I would decline kindly. It does sound tough for her but she's unlikely to be successful by the sounds of it and you don't want to mess up your own career. You could advise her that since you haven't passed your probation yet you wouldn't be a good person to represent her.

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