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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To say no to be my work colleagues advocate at her probation meeting?

46 replies

Littleideasbigbook · 22/12/2020 22:33

Background: started new job in July 2020, promotion, in NHS, new team. Two other new starters in my team (started before me, April 2020) are the same band. I work closely with them (their job 'feeds' my job) but have only met them face to face once as neither of them have been keen to come into the office (I had to be in the hospital, they could wfh).

Fast forward to now, one of them had her probation extended in October 2020, to be reviewed in January 2021 with specific instructions on how to improve her performance. It does seem she has tried very hard but obviously I have limited knowledge. We only know this as she shared with me and other woman who does same job as her. The management gave not mentioned it at all. We were supportive and listened and I advised her to join the union back in October. She didn't. She had a meeting this week and they have said she usn't meeting job requirements and is working two bands below. They have told her to bring a union rep or a colleague to the probation review in Jan but have been clear it is very unlikely her probation will be passed.

She has asked me to attend the meeting with her. My 6 month probation meeting is the day after. My instinct is that I will be shooting myself in the foot advocating for her. She said in her message asking me 'Will you be my representative, as in help take my side'. For more info she is 25 weeks pregnant and english is her second language. AIBU to say no? I had told her to join the union! I feel if I say yes, she will expect me to basically act like her lawyer and there is no way I can as I don't know all the information and I don't want to paint myself into a corner. Her managers are my managers. My instinct is to 'help' but my experience has taught me not to do that to my own detriment and I suspect she wants more 'help' than I actually can give. AIBU?

OP posts:

SynchroSwimmer · 22/12/2020 23:34

Could you say simply that -
Unfortunately on this occasion you can’t be her advocate as it conflicts with your own review / or whatever. (I.e. without going into specifics)

I.e you want to, but your hands are tied...

kazzer2867 · 23/12/2020 00:08

Most unions wont provide representation straight away. I'm a Unison member and members must have been a member of the union for at least 4 weeks prior to the incident or occurrence that leads to her/him seeking assistance from the Union.

slashlover · 23/12/2020 00:13

As PP have said, you wouldn't be allowed to advocate for her. At any meeting like that I've been to (as notetaker for the company) the colleague isn't allowed to speak and is basically just there for moral support and maybe take notes.

Original poster

Littleideasbigbook · 23/12/2020 07:24

I don't really think even providing moral support/note taking is the right thing to do. Her expectation is that support means sticking up for her. She has misunderstood as I am not in a position to do that anyway. I think I am best not getting involved at all. How much moral support can you provide to someone you don't know well? Her other work colleague does the same role and has passed her probation but she hasn't asked her. Not that I would say that. I am just going to write 'Sorry X, I do not feel comfortable doing that as I have not passed my probation yet. I think you might be best asking HR what your options are.' As a PP has said, I don't want to open up any conversation about it tbh.

OP posts:

Poppins2016 · 23/12/2020 07:30

Plus she works in Data Analysis and I don't have a clue about how she should be performing anyway

I would use this as a good reason not to attend the meeting. "You don't know her role and you feel it would be inappropriate".

SpiderinaWingMirror · 23/12/2020 07:34

Good decision Op. I have done it a couple of times in a business where there was no union but I would never do it again.

Pinkfreesias · 23/12/2020 07:42

A union rep likely wouldn't know a person's job role in any depth either. But they would know if the company were following all procedures that are required by the law. You could explain that you can't possibly advocate for her in this manner so must decline.

I do feel for her, though. I've been on the receiving end of these proceedings and was glad to have my union rep there to challenge my line manager and the HR person. In your position, I'd suggest that she ask HR if she could have a family member or friend there for moral support only.

wigornian · 23/12/2020 08:04

To those saying in Role would be passive, a union rep wouldn’t be - and she would expect you to advocate - will look pleadingly at you and you will be brow beaten to say more than is prudent. I would say you can’t perform that role because you are still on probation too.

tttigress · 23/12/2020 08:10

Should one probationer really be advocating for another probationer? Surely it is for a more established worker to do this?

NewlyGranny · 23/12/2020 08:12

Three reasons against and no reasons for:

You're still on probation yourself;
You don't know or even understand what she actually does;
She clearly doesn't grasp what your role would be.

Oh, and it's better to disappoint her by declining than to agree and disappoint her by not being a vocal advocate!

tttigress · 23/12/2020 08:12

Stating the obvious, but probation is there for a reason. Not everyone is able to do every job.

RaspberryCoulis · 23/12/2020 08:15

In this situation you're not "adovcating". You're there as an observer, to take notes or to be a witness to what each side said.

Having said that, in your position I would still refuse.

Original poster

Littleideasbigbook · 23/12/2020 08:17

Luckily DP (an NHS old timer and is in the business support side of the organisation so knows this stuff) has sent me a link to the staff advocacy service. I do feel for her. From what I have seen they are picking up on how she is wording emails etc which will be a second language issue but I know I don't have the full picture. Starting a job in the middle of a pandemic has been hard, it is her first pregnancy and she was thrown in at the deep end. But like I say, I don't have the full picture

OP posts:

Requinblanc · 23/12/2020 08:19

I did this for a colleague and all that was asked of me was to take note during the meeting so that they had an independent person to witness the discussion. I was a senior member of staff and so was my colleague. She was working for a nightmare of a boss (who was fired a few months later) who was trying to get rid of her simply because she was good at her job. I was not asked to advocate, just to witness and share my notes with all participants after the meeting. I did not regret doing it and it did not cause me any problems. I clarified in advance with HR what was expected of me.

If you don't even know that colleague well or are able to comment on her performance there is no point in your being there though...she needs a union member/staff representative who knows what her rights are and can really give support.

PatsyJStone · 23/12/2020 08:20

You’ve had two or three people explain how it works correctly here and also with regards to uinion involvement. Just explain that you can’t do anything if you did attend, except take notes. Your probationary period has nothing to do with it. As a work friend, if you feel that you are, it would be a nice thing to do. The people in the meeting wouldn’t be asking you any questions, expecting you to advocate for her or expecting you to partake in any way. You could do it as a learning process for yourself, you may find it interesting albeit not a particularly positive experience for her.

Lollyneenah · 23/12/2020 08:22

I would help from a distance. Given that she doesnt understand the meaning of asking you to attend with her, is it possible that shes misunderstanding her job role/responsibilities?
I'd offer to looo over her job role etc.
At the moment she sounds like she is on the defensive, her HR meeting would go much better if she went in open minded and receptive

Lollyneenah · 23/12/2020 08:23

Look*

Rainbowshine · 23/12/2020 08:28

You could attend as other HR people have said but you’re not comfortable so just say you’re not the best person to go to the meeting with her and give her the staff advocacy details. Ex NHS HR here.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 23/12/2020 10:12

I’d lie and say ‘as I am also on probation I can’t ‘

yellowhighheels · 23/12/2020 10:35

I feel for her but think you're making the right choice in saying 'sorry, no' to this, OP. The point is that she doesn't seem to understand it's a supportive role only and not representation so would likely not thank you that much anyway if she's expecting someone to go in and help fight her corner. As she's so new and not a union member, I wonder whether HR would let her invite a friend?

I'm Civil Service not NHS but in the course of seeing several colleagues' issues play out, I've noticed that our union reps tend to help people out with support and advice in things like this even if they are new joiners. They did for the person I recently had to let go. So if she asks the union quickly, they might be able to assist.

nosswith · 23/12/2020 10:38

I think your instinct is correct, as you cannot help in a way that would do her justice. Glad to see your DP has helped.

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