To ask whether we could ever go back to what it was like in the 50s-70s?

[myblueheav3n]

I mean in a financial sense more than anything, although I know it wasn’t perfect. I only have a very superficial understanding of it all, but as far as I can tell:

• Affordable housing, and a lot of social housing for those who couldn’t buy.

• Liveable wages for unskilled jobs and good opportunity to work your way up in whatever your profession was. Plenty of work available for young people.

• Education was worth a lot more, e.g. now a university degree is minimum for a ‘decent’ job, and not even that is really guaranteed either.

I had more but after thinking about it for a while they’ve slipped my mind In general it seems like it was better, and people who grew up during these periods generally did well for themselves.

Fatcat, you're missing the point. I'm talking about the present day and how ridiculous things are now. Transgender politics bollocks. Calling biological women 'people who menstruate' or Cis women. Biological women are women, period

I was born in 1953 and there were Tampax ads when I was a child.

Not on TV.

@FatCatThinCat

I was born in 1953 and there were Tampax ads when I was a child.

Not on TV.

You didn’t specify on TV, you said there weren’t any.

@PandoraRocks

Fatcat, you're missing the point. I'm talking about the present day and how ridiculous things are now. Transgender politics bollocks. Calling biological women 'people who menstruate' or Cis women. Biological women are women, period

I didn't miss the point. The point you were making was that you want to continue to use language which has been deemed offensive for quite some time now. Because in the good old days you could be as offensive as you liked, apart from the taboo things which nobody was supposed to talk about.

I was born in 1960, to a middle class family. I was lucky to go to grammar school - girls only so the emphasis was on the arts rather than the sciences. I left at 16 and trained as a secretary - university was never condidered although I wanted to go. My father did not approve of girls being educated.

I was sacked by my employer in 1980s when I got pregnant. Whether or not a law was in place didn't matter - employers got away with it as very few women had the means to fight it.

I went to university as a mature student - would have loved to have gone when I was younger. I was one of just 6 women in a class of 100 males. I have had a successful career but had to fight hard against male attitudes, sexism and the glass ceiling all the way. Most progress is good so please don't think life was easier then.

Sanitary towel adverts had blue liquid until quite recently - probably less than five years ago. My granny used to turn the television over in disgust when they started showing girls swimming and suggesting they might have periods.
First women didn't enter House of Lords until 1958.

I can't remember exactly when this changed, but from memory it was the early 90s - late 80s at the earliest. Married women were unable to submit a tax return in their own name. They had to provide their husband with all relevant details for him or his accountant to add to his own return. Incredibly sexist.

No!

Perish the thought.

I am 70 and remember all those years vividly. There were some good times of course but never would I return to them.

I was around during those times OP. The only thing I would 100% agree with is the social housing aspect— it gave security for many - although you might be idealising it somewhat as at the time a lot of the council housing wasn’t that special- it’s a very mixed bag depending on what you got.

I do think there was a period in time where you could leave school on the Friday with little to no qualifications, and walk into a job - construction, manufacturing, hospitality, and if you go back further go into service - on the Monday. I’m not saying they were good or easy jobs, but automation does mean there are very few remaining unskilled jobs for those who aren’t academically capable of passing exams.
I wouldn’t want to go back to the times where women had very few rights in the workplace, but the prevalence of two parent working families has had an undeniable economic impact.

1960s. In order to rent a TV on weekly payments, my employed single mother had to have a MALE guarantor counter-sign the agreement. That meant ANY man (criminal, unemployed, bankrupt ) - but no woman.

@ColdTattyWaitingForSummer

I do think there was a period in time where you could leave school on the Friday with little to no qualifications, and walk into a job - construction, manufacturing, hospitality, and if you go back further go into service - on the Monday. I’m not saying they were good or easy jobs, but automation does mean there are very few remaining unskilled jobs for those who aren’t academically capable of passing exams. I wouldn’t want to go back to the times where women had very few rights in the workplace, but the prevalence of two parent working families has had an undeniable economic impact.

Yes. I don't have direct experience of this, but there was a woman I used to chat to on the school run back in the 1990s who was picking up her grandchildren. I'd guess she was born in the late 1940s. She told me she got an office job when she left school. She'd have been 15, maybe 16, so in the early 1960s. In the course of the first week her Dad got increasingly bothered by the fact that she wasn't getting to leave the office on the dot of 5pm, which was what she'd been told. So he told her to hand in her notice, and she did, once she got her first pay packet. On the following Monday she started a new job. Changed times!

Marital rape was also lawful back then.

I think I hear you OP, wrt the essentials things were more secure. But presumably the thinking went that the working classes would get notions so needed to be made to feel insecure again.

FatCatThinCat Wed 23-Dec-20 20:11:51
Marital rape was also lawful back then.

Yes, and gay people were imprisoned; and many illegitimate chidlren - as young as three - were exported to be used as slave labour in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and South Africa (Child Migrant's Scheme). The last of them were sent in 1970.

In 1972, only 42% of houses had a telephone and 37% had central heating.
10% had an outdoor toilet and no bathroom
we also have 66m people in the country now compared to 56m in 1970, so nearly 20% more to house, have jobs, healthcare etc.

@Walkintal

In 1972, only 42% of houses had a telephone and 37% had central heating. 10% had an outdoor toilet and no bathroom we also have 66m people in the country now compared to 56m in 1970, so nearly 20% more to house, have jobs, healthcare etc.

Yes, the night my father died (1972) I had to run the mile up the road to a phone box to call an ambulance. We had a freezing outside lavatory. Nobody lingered in winter. We dressed in bed as it was so cold. No heating at all. Our fridge (when we got one was gas not electric. Always going out. No freezer, a mangle. Black and white television, when we had one. No car.

Real incomes have doubled since 1977, with incomes increasing for all groups.
food and housing took 39% of income in 1977, it is now 36%. Spending on leisure has doubled to 10%.
www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn128.pdf

In the 70's I was physically abused by everyone because it was acceptable.
Not so much from parents, although you got a smack for being naughty.
School was completely different smacked and bullied for having learning difficulties.

Far fewer people made it to university it took me until my late 30's.
Unless you had the required A levels you didn't go, no BTEC or other alternatives.

I enjoyed your post @PandoraRocks, and agree that there is a lot of bullshit on this thread, mainly, as you said, from people who were not actually there at the time frame mentioned. I'm in total agreement with all your comments.

However, I have also learnt a lot, and it seems to me that growing up in 60s/70s NZ was a different thing to being in the UK at the same time! I look back on my childhood and teen years with great fondness (born in 1959).

OP, it sounds like you want to be a white, middle class, English man of that era. Was probably quite a good life for him, yes.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

Pretty well everyone and everything is materially better off than they were then in absolute terms yes.

poverty is measured in relative terms so unfortunately yes we still have whole swathes of poor people and families experiencing poverty

physically buildings have internally changed , no longer an outside cludgie as standard

Opportunities are limited for wc and poor people, mobility is decreased

Real poverty is not measured in relative terms. This is how we have lost track of what poverty is (if relevant, yes I have lived in real poverty).

Inequality and poverty are NOT the same. Our priority should be on tackling poverty first.

The bit that fascinates me back in the day one wage meant a
Nice standard of living or appeared too, my friends who are Dr’s and lawyers are struggling with huge mortgages and both partners have premium Careers but not the lifestyles

@midgebabe

I think the council housing was good though. Reasonable priced ( which kept private rents down which kept house prices sensible ) , well maintained, secure tenancy with lots of rights regarding decor etc ( at least that's my families experience )

Private renting with the likes of Rachman? & adverts stating no dogs, Irish or Blacks

Careers advice in my school (late 70's) could be summed up as did you want to work in a shop or an office.
Office practice & typing CSEs obligatory for all girls. Science choice; v hard not to take Domestic Science.
Out of 16 forms in each year to 16 - so around 450 children, c, 225 girls, one went directly from school to university.