To ask what businesses can realistically be expected to do about Royal Mail delays?!

[TheySayHurray]

Run a small business. We've had an overwhelming amount of orders this Christmas for Christmas gifts which I'm very thankful for.

We have sent all out in good time, all for next day delivery. However, there are some delays at the moment. A few of the ND deliverys have taken over 5 days to actually reach the customer.

Despite providing tracking information every time I am getting hounded day and night asking for help, where people's orders are, can I do anything, it's a Christmas gift and so on.

Even one today where the tracking says it's been delivered this morning but the customer is saying it hasn't.

I don't know what I'm realistically expected to do other than contact royal mail (who take at least 30 days to respond to any claims).

I put very clearly on my website that I would in no way guarantee Christmas delivery for orders made after X date but no one seems to have bothered reading it!

I've even been pressured into remaking and sending items out in the hope at least one of them gets to the customer in time.

You need to be quite firm I’m afraid. It’s taken me six years but I will not be hounded and hassled into refunds over issues I have no control over without people being reasonable about the limitations a business has over couriers and delays.

While many people who are used to shopping small are incredibly supportive, there are people who are very used to Amazon etc delivering next day and orders being refunded without much investigation if they kick up a fuss. (For places like Amazon it’s much cheaper to just refund it than bother looking into the volume of issues they’d have properly)

Posters claiming you should give a full refund immediately and ‘claim it back’ are the ones who are absolutely naive as to how this works. The small business will VERY rarely be able to ‘claim it back’. The process of claiming anything can take months of waiting, hours of admin and you often get given a book of stamps as compensation. You will never actually get back what you’ve had to refund, OR what it costs to make and send the item in the first place. I have yet to find a courier who you can actually ‘claim it back’ from. I think peoples naivety with that can often be what drives them to insist on being refunded without actually waiting for the seller to look into it, or waiting for a courier to confirm it is actually lost.

Yes a lot of it IS part of running a business. Sometimes things go missing and sadly you have to refund them and take the loss yourself even though it was not technically your fault. I’ve refunded and replaced orders at my own cost many times because I would never leave someone without the item they paid for. But I won’t do that when someone is hammering my email inbox down because it’s not arrived on a specific day.
And in this situation, absolutely not. It is all over the news that Royal Mail are having a nightmare right now. Many of the items WILL arrive (it’s extremely rare for recorded Royal Mail parcels to actually go missing) and why on earth should the OP refund people because they’ve had to wait through no fault of hers, when the item is likely to arrive late anyway leaving the customer with an order fulfilled but also refunded?! Nonsense.

Be sympathetic and professional. Definitely don’t use phrases like ‘not our responsibility’ because it’s unprofessional and uncaring.

But do make it clear that there is not anything you can physically do at the moment, and let them know that you’ll not be able to make a claim on their behalf until Royal Mail confirm it as a lost parcel. Which they will not do yet because it’s very obviously just held up in the delays.
Remind them that you’ve done all you can to have it there on time, you’ve got proof of it having been sent off safely, and unfortunately due to Christmas and the pandemic, all companies are struggling with this issue right now.

It’s not just small business either so I’ve no idea why a poster says it puts them off shopping small. JD sports have been atrocious and are all over social media for it. Also Matalan. I ordered from Space Nk and paid for next day delivery and it took over a week to show up.

Sometimes people are going to throw a really aggressive email at you because they want to express their frustration, and are seemingly unable to control the urge to take it out on a small business who clearly are not at fault and sometimes people also assume that a small business will panic and refund them for fear of a bad review.

Royal Mail have, again, been caught out by "unexpected" demand. Funny how the other main couriers seem to be doing OK. I think the OP really needs to be looking at alternatives. I look out of my window and see DPD, Amazon, Hermes, etc deliveries 10-12 hours per day, 7 days per week, yet Royal Mail posties don't deliver on Sundays and seem to only be out delivering from mid morning to early afternoon - maybe 3/4/5 hours of the day. It's hardly surprising they're not coping with the obvious/expected increase due to online shopping etc.

The trouble is that DPD, Amazon, Hermes all use Royal Mail to actually move the parcels and letters across the country. They just do the collections and then delivery to door via their own network.

Royal Mail has a monopoly just like BT do or the utilities. The Tory mirage of competition amongst these services is misleading and doesn't really work. It's a way of fleecing off public money into the hands of the shareholders of the private companies that front what is still essentially a nationalised monopolistic business.

Most people's experience of this type of 'competition' is the railway service - and we all know how well that works for the customer!

I feel you! I run a small business and I've been bombarded with messages about late delivery. Most of my customers have been pretty understanding but it's still hard and stressful facing the prospect of having to refund many orders that will likely show up eventually. Many things are two weeks late, even first class and tracked post.

I've had one particularly difficult customer who started complaining before it had even been posted, because she, like a lot of my customers, just don't read the info and expect a handmade item to be posted within a few days of ordering. She's demanded a refund but I've had customers be more understanding who've been waiting longer than her. And I've had late orders finally arrive that took longer than she's willing to wait. Read the info people!!! Please.

I try to keep it professional and be as polite and helpful as possible but I can see things from their point of view too and don't want to it to seem like I'm fobbing people off.

This stress really ruins the run up to Christmas.

I feel for you. I run a new giftbox business and send through RM. I posted my last parcels first class last Wed but said on my Etsy page that there were long delays etc. I dread getting messages to chase things up (I don’t send everything tracked as I have such low margins already). I had one on Sunday chasing up a parcel I posted the previous Monday first class, luckily it arrived yesterday. When I reopen in the new year I’m going to look into alternative delivery options.

The reason posties are "only out delivering from mid morning to early afternoon" is because they are employed to work fixed hours.
Amazon is a different model, they have a lot of people on zero hour contracts who pick up the work as it comes in.

It is frustrating, OP, but I think you also do have to take some responsibility, and absorb the cost of some failed deliveries into your business model.

I run a small business but I also work in eCommerce, so I understand both ends of the scale.
For my small business, I ship internationally a lot of the time, and most parcels do arrive. I send on a RM untracked service as standard which keeps the costs down, and 99% of buyers are happy. If a buyer contacts me to say a parcel hasn't arrived and it's more than 4 weeks since I sent it, I send a replacement on a fully tracked service. Yes, it's annoying and expensive when that happens, but it's rare and I still end up better off doing it that way. It's less admin for me than trying to chase it up, and although the postage then eats any profit I would have made on that order, the customer is happy and will hopefully order again, or leave a positive review, or at the very least, not leave a negative one! The tiny profit I make by sending untracked, balances out the ones I have to re-send.

If nothing ever arrived at all, I would absolutely refund the customer. If they don't have the product in the end, they shouldn't be paying. Losses are just part of running a business and you DO have the responsibility of getting your product to your customer.

RM are a nightmare at the moment, but your package that is showing as delivered and the customer says it isn't, is an entirely separate issue and you should be doing more. If it was a tracked parcel, get on the phone to RM and request the GPS co-ordinates of the delivery (they can provide this). If you can't get it sorted, promise the customer a replacement after Christmas. That's just good customer service! I would be pretty disappointed if I was your customer and you just washed your hands of it and blamed it on RM.

This is the thing as PPs say, I can't just refund everything that doesn't turn up right away because they likely will turn up! So I'll end up refunding people whilst they also then receive there order!

I haven't washed my hands of it (I have actually sorted this one today already) my point was, lots of customers failed to read my very obvious update about delays to postage and therefore being unable to guarantee Christmas delivery and are now complaining that they might not receive things by Christmas... I will do everything I can on my end obviously, but surely some responsibility is on the customer when it's right there on the shop page that you might not get it in time for Christmas due to delays! I can't refund everything that is late, I warned people that things might be late and they still chose to order.

I would obviously refund something that literally never turned up. I've not said I wouldn't. But I can't refund every package that turns up late.

Royal mail is your chosen agent - not your customers problem. Use a different service, e.g. DPD.

You are responsible for the actions of Royal Mail to your customers - you need to refund if not delivered within expected timescales.

As your agent, the tracking of Royal Mail is not relevant unless the signature is agreed by the customer.

It's just a risk of doing business - select your partners carefully.

@HoboSexualOnslow

I am a small business who sells handmade items. If an item hasnt arrived with my customers within 30 days (the timescale the law allows for unless another timeframe is agreed beforehand) then I am happy to refund them or remake the item. It isnt cheeky at all for them to expect to get the item in a reasonable time or get a refund. I'm a small business. I am not a charity. I dont get to keep people's money and not bother to ensure they have the item.

If it has gone missing in the post, I claim that back from royal mail. I'm not out of pocket.

Agree with you re Christmas delivery - you have 30 days (I think) before it's considered late, unless the customer has specified time is of the essence - at which point it really is your issue if you accepted the order.

@TheySayHurray

You have 30 days to get items to them, unless a longer delivery date was agreed beforehand or a guaranteed shorter date was agreed beforehand. You dont need to offer any refunds or replacements until those 30 days have passed, especially since you've made it abundantly clear on your website that christmas delivery was not guaranteed or even remotely likely.

Replace or refund.
Royal Mail are struggling at the moment, but you as a business sub contract them, and so responsile for delivery.

I run a small business , make all my own stuff, and have had the same problems.
However I took the decision to not accept orders after the 14th Dec. I am still being with emails because of no arrivals but very glad I closed for the holidays when I did.
I knew Royal Mail were starting to struggle two weeks ago, so was not a surprise.
I like to keep my buyers happy- I would rather not accept orders than disappoint.
I sell plenty stuff in the other 12 months of the year to keep my income up.
I like a break myself, and know all the usual problems when things get chaotic at this time. THis year is worse, but not unexpected.

Royal mail is your chosen agent - not your customers problem

Surely if a customer orders from a business who use royal mail and has a big ol' pop up on their home page that there will likely be delays to delivery and Christmas delivery cannot be guaranteed, then it kinda does become them choosing to still go ahead and use RM.

If they don't want to use RM and want guaranteed delivery, it's probably not a good idea to use someone who clearly uses RM and has literally told you it can't be guaranteed in time.

I mean, you have to be pretty thick right?

The one that's arrived will likely be delivered tomorrow

I've had tracking today saying they put the signed for parcel through my door today and postie signed for it

It's definitely not here and this happened last week too - it just means it's on the van and he didn't have time to put it through the door

It arrived the next morning

DH works with food exports, they’ve had official defra certificates delayed in the mail for 1-2 weeks, tens of thousands of pounds worth of dairy products delayed going to Europe before brexit, which has now has a magical mystery tour to Kent in a refrigerated lorry, and is now heading back to the warehouse. It’s going tits up everywhere, I don’t think this was in your power to prevent, if you warned people about delays when they ordered then that’s all you could do really. Then go through official RM channels if things don’t turn up eventually.

It’s so stressful this year! I run an online business (handmade items) and closed Christmas orders on the 4th Dec, in anticipation of the chaos to come. I posted the last U.K. parcels on the 10th (1st class) and some have only just arrived - in some cases it’s taken longer than items sent to the US. I count myself extremely lucky to have very lovely, understanding customers but I went on and on and on about possible postal delays on social media/my mailing list/all over my shop for weeks in advance and still had an avalanche of emails chasing things last week. I learned a while ago that it just comes with the territory! I’ve also found that prompt, honest communication and acknowledgement of the customer’s frustration goes a very long way - people are generally pretty decent if they understand what’s going on.

It really is your issue to sort, irrespective of issues with RM. Perhaps in future I’d insist on using priority service after a certain date to ensure items arrive in time.

I’ve just had a property transaction fail to complete today because solicitors stupidly send hard copies of documents in the post without tracking, which leads me to believe it went first class! To say I’m furious, really is an understatement, I’ll have to deal with the fall out tomorrow but very likely I’ll face further fees because these docs won’t turn up tomorrow either. If you run a service where you rely on the postal service, it remains your responsibility until the client / buyer receives the items.

If you run a service where you rely on the postal service, it remains your responsibility until the client / buyer receives the items.

Absolutely- which is why shut up shop in early December.
My sales would quadruple in the last few weeks before christmas, but I spend all year working at full tilt.
So I always stop early.

Christmas mail is often subject to delays and everyone wants their stuff in time. I alsw can't physically make and post everything - I would be workig a 15 hour day.
So although it is hearbreaking to turn away the ££££, I do so to protect my business overall.
Plus it's lovely to have 3 weeks off every christmas to enjoy my own festivities.

@TheySayHurray

Run a small business. We've had an overwhelming amount of orders this Christmas for Christmas gifts which I'm very thankful for.

We have sent all out in good time, all for next day delivery. However, there are some delays at the moment. A few of the ND deliverys have taken over 5 days to actually reach the customer.

Despite providing tracking information every time I am getting hounded day and night asking for help, where people's orders are, can I do anything, it's a Christmas gift and so on.

Even one today where the tracking says it's been delivered this morning but the customer is saying it hasn't.

I don't know what I'm realistically expected to do other than contact royal mail (who take at least 30 days to respond to any claims).

I put very clearly on my website that I would in no way guarantee Christmas delivery for orders made after X date but no one seems to have bothered reading it!

I've even been pressured into remaking and sending items out in the hope at least one of them gets to the customer in time.

My husband has an Etsy business and is having all this (he’s now shut the shop over Christmas as it’s just a hobby) Anyway, re late parcels don’t be bullied into sending out replacements until the Royal Mail deadline for delivery has passed. You may need to check their website for updates as to what they’re guaranteeing. Claim any compensation you can from them too. That’s what he does.

I’d send out a template email to everyone explaining the issues with Royal Mail, explaining RM’s process for claims and that you’re investigating it. Don’t be bullied into sending out replacements until the deadline has passed.

It really is your issue to sort though, as the contract is between you and RM.

The ones that have ordered after your cut off date, just reply pointing to your policy on your website

Is it a specific batch of parcels sent out on one date or all random?

I’ve had a parcel arrive today that was part of a huge batch the seller sent out on 1st December - the seller had emailed last week to apologise and say there was an issue with this particular batch as virtually none had arrived but stuff she’d sent out since had. The tracking wasn’t being updated so no one knew where the parcels were, whether they were on their way, lost or just stuck somewhere

I emailed the seller this morning to let her know it had arrived and she said that she’s received emails from pretty much everyone saying the same thing so hopefully things will start arriving.

I have had an email this morning from Royal mail which says "the item you ordered from Retailer" will be arriving this morning.

No idea which item. No idea which retailer. First logged in Yorkshire. Could be anything.

@Bimbleboo

I'm a jeweller. I send everything special delivery, so compensation up to £500. Anytime they have lost something, I've filled out the claim form (which takes 5 minutes) and attach the proof (the order confirmation from my website showing the value) and they have refunded me the full value of the order plus to postage cost. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but if you send them with the correct level of insurance and fill the form out properly then you get your compensation.

As a business owner It’s just not worth the hassle accepting orders which you know you’ll most likely not be able to deliver. Either you stump up for guaranteed delivery or don’t take orders after a certain date in the first place.