Worst in Living Memory?

[ElephantWhaleRabbit]

Maybe it’s because we’re all caught up in everything right now, but AIBU to think Boris Johnson the worst Prime Minister in living memory? I mean, which of the former PMs, wouldn’t you swap in for him? Or is he just a victim of a bad set of circumstances?

People should take a look at the foreign press rather than on U.K. newspapers. You would be hard pressed to find any newspapers expressing anything other than incredulity that any nation would do this to itself.

I live in a country that has close links and generally a hugely admiring attitude towards the UK. It has been odd to watch the reporting in the news as they look on with incredulity at the way Johnson has dealt with the pandemic.

You can imagine that if it was war Johnson, would actually be seen as Chamberlain - dithering and appeasing, and when things got serious be given the boot

Chamberlain's "dithering" bought Britain the time it needed to prepare for war. Defence spending had been slashed and, while rearmament had started in the early 30s, it accelerated considerably from 1938 onwards.

If the UK had gone to war in 1938, the outcome could well have been very different.

I wasn't talking about "How successful would the UK have been if she had declared war on Germany in 1938. Discuss."

Chamberlain may have bought us time, which is how we are re-evaluating the situation now and questioning how events could have been handled differently, but the reputation which stuck was of an appeaser.

The same went and happened with Blair - he supported the Iraq war, which went wrong for the UK and the USA and bam, he has wrecked his reputation which otherwise would have been positive (IMO).

So with Johnson, supposing he clears out in the New Year. Will his reputation be 'the man who got Brexit done'. Or will he be, 'the man who made a mess dealing with Covid.'? We will need to see how both of these play out.

I don’t like him. But let’s be honest, this is a brand new thing and his walking along in the dark. I’m sure his doing the best he can, this isn’t really his fault, I’m sure no one guessed a pandemic was coming when he took the job.

I support labour but if I’m honest they are starting to piss me off with the political point scoring whilst we are in the middle of a crisis!!

What? The man who's deemed sticking a covid test up a nose too risky for health professionals in PPE but says teachers have to do it to thousands of students whilst teaching with no PPE and threats if they question it? The man that's taken numerous holidays this year but took away teacher's holidays by announcing the above with no plan how to implement it on the last day of term? The same man who convinced the idiot public it doesn't spread in schools and as a result it's rife.

Do you really want me to answer that or can you work it out for yourself.

Clue: it's not he's trying his best.

On Chamberlain, he championed the single seat fighter and got the hurricane and spitfire developed in the 30s.
Churchill as a backbencher, wanted a fighter bomber, fortunately, chamberlain won, the early fighter bombers were a disaster.

Johnson would have developed the great british longbow, arguing that it worked Agincourt and will work again against hitler's cavalry

'Boris, just think about it , he`s sorted brexit'

Yes. Whether a leaver or remainer I've no idea why people can't just give them credit for actually getting a no quota free trade deal. The first the EU as agreed to. He is actually very clever despite the messy hair, bumbling persona.

Now the worst FM must surely go to Sturgeon and her grasping hypocritical right hand man Blackford. To have wanged on at length about Johnson's no deal 'disaster' for Scotland they are now going to actually vote against the deal struck. After she said 'ANY deal is better than no deal!!!' for years. How are the Scot nats so eaten up by hatred for Westminster that they don't see the actual disaster that is right in front of their noses?!

Except that No Deal was better than a Bad Deal, remember? Now we have a 'thin' deal, and somehow the narrative is being spun.

But time will tell.

Please stop insulting the memory of Neville Chamberlain and Winston Churchill by in any way thinking Boris Johnson is similar.

Hitler would have successful invaded and conquered part if not all of the United Kingdom if a person such as Boris Johnson had been Prime Minister. Though no-one as immoral as him would ever have got near to the position.

'Please stop insulting the memory of Neville Chamberlain and Winston Churchill by in any way thinking Boris Johnson is similar.'

Churchill was flawed too, no one is perfect.

Judge them on what they achieve not if you like their hair do or not. Johnson has achieved what no one thought possible, in the middle of a global crisis. It is amusing that all the naysayers on mn are desperately trying to sweep it under the carpet.

The interesting thing about this debate is partly that history judges, but partly that reputations change. If someone other had taken over from Chamberlain then Churchill's reputation would have been cast in the light of earlier behaviour, which would not have been so favourable.

Cameron is an obvious example - his reputation rests on the Referendum. If Brexit is a success, he will be seen as the one who enabled it, (even though he ran away.) If say Scotland gains independence he could be seen as the one who finally pushed the UK into breaking up.

Johnson had achieved what no one thought possible?!

You're right. No one could have possibly predicted this mess. It's one for the Science fiction writers.

And Haig was inspiring for sending thousands of infantry and Calvary at machine guns.

All those naysayers saying that the machine gun is mightier than the horse were just being negative, eh?

I’m sure no one guessed a pandemic was coming when he took the job

Fucksake experts have been warning of a pandemic for years and years. It was at the absolute top of the national risk register.

And wasn't it Singapore who dealt with Covid well because they followed the guidelines laid down in the UK advice? Which the UK Government couldn't be bothered with?

Tough luck for Johnson, hey? Events, dear boy, Events.

@GetOffYourHighHorse I am judging Mr Johnson on his performance not his hair. First national restrictions at least a week late at a time when cases were doubling at least every seven days, second set over a month after detailed recommendations from SAGE. No 'world beating' test and trace system, little use of local knowledge and contacts. No setting an example in behaviour of his team.

I judge also against alternative Tory leaders and what I think they would have done. At least 10,000 fewer deaths in my opinion.

As for the Brexit trade deal, it's a capitulation to the EU, however you dress it up.

Any one would be "better" I'm not sure who would have been best.

'I am judging Mr Johnson on his performance not his hair. First national restrictions at least a week late at a time when cases were doubling at least every seven days, second set over a month after detailed recommendations from SAGE. No 'world beating' test and trace system, little use of local knowledge and contacts. No setting an example in behaviour of his team.'

All of which can be argued against. For example we know compliance in this country is a problem the lockdown had to be at the point of most effect. From 17th March we were told to restrict socialising, with strict instructions a few days later. Our testing capacity is one of the best in the world.

They have worked in partnership with local councils

The one thing I would criticise them for is when msm say 'worst death rate in Europe!' They don't correct them and tell them no, per capita is needed for context (see previous worldometer link). For those who struggle with this here is an example, if say a town has 100 residents and 50 die and another town has 100,000 residents and 60 die would you really say the second had the worst death rate?! Deaths per million is what is relevant combined with density of population.

What behaviour example setting are you referring to?

'I judge also against alternative Tory leaders and what I think they would have done. At least 10,000 fewer deaths in my opinion.'

Ah yes.. those Labour leaders in Wales have done such a brilliant job, not to mention #ThankyouNicola in Scotland with its small population and small pop density

We aren't talking about devolved Governments though. We are talking about UK PMs.

They have worked in partnership with local councils

Local councils tracked about 75% of contacts with about 25% of the budget.

'We aren't talking about devolved Governments though. We are talking about UK PMs.'

Ah right got it! God forbid anyone gives any balance to your very narrow discussion.

I personally think Blair was the worst pm. Look at the 2004 gp 'contact'. GPs opting out of an oncall/out of hours service. Lovely! and the catastrophic effect it had on primary care. Of course there's the Iraq war too. Still not as bad as a no quota FTA with the EU!!!

Contract*

There were no FMs or equivalents way back in the mists of time. There are now, however, and they should be included.

Blair us still trying to poke his pointy nose in, at ant opportunity. Pompous little man.

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