To ask why there isn't a long term strategy re covid

hepatocyte · 20/12/2020 16:02

Well one huge issue is that treatment doesn’t guarantee recovery. We want to prevent people getting it rather than just letting it rip through the U.K...

Sinful8 · 20/12/2020 16:05

@ForestNymph

Lots of threads, lots of opinions regarding lockdowns. However something that stands out to me - whether you're for or against lockdown, the facts of the situation that everyone seems to not dispute are a) the virus is here to stay and b) the main goal is to not overwhelm the NHS/slow the virus down, not eradicate it.

The problem is NHS capacity as much as anything else, right?

So why not reintroduce the bursary for student nurses/paramedics/etc? Why not incentivise ITU training? Why not expand the hospitals we currently have? Why not invest in more doctors per patient?

It seems nothing is being done for the long term and everyone is just dallying and hoping on a vaccine. Which is great but until we've vaccinated people we don't actually know how effective it'll be, whether a strain will eventually mutate and render it useless etc. It seems utterly stupid to put all our eggs in this vaccine basket when we know that medical treatment can save lives if we have access to it.

Just me? And the money argument doesn't hold up, they've pulled money from their arses for everything else.

Because ther isn't a long term problem theres only a short term one

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 16:05

@hepatocyte

Well one huge issue is that treatment doesn’t guarantee recovery. We want to prevent people getting it rather than just letting it rip through the U.K...

No but thats like most things. I'm not saying don't vaccinate, the vaccine is great, but it shouldn't be the only plan or solution here. It should be happening along with an increase in medical facilities

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nosswith · 20/12/2020 16:05

Strategy and this government are mutually exclusive.

The proposals you suggest are those with benefits that are invisible to most people, unlike shiny new infrastructure projects which Mr Johnson loves as a bit of willy waving. Buses with conductors that don't take fares and the cable car to nowhere were examples of his time as London Mayor.

TheBuffster · 20/12/2020 16:08

Goodness, great minds. I said the same thing to my husband today. I imagine it is because this government want to privatise the NHS and this gives them a pretty good excuse.

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 16:13

@nosswith

Strategy and this government are mutually exclusive.

The proposals you suggest are those with benefits that are invisible to most people, unlike shiny new infrastructure projects which Mr Johnson loves as a bit of willy waving. Buses with conductors that don't take fares and the cable car to nowhere were examples of his time as London Mayor.

Its stupid populism with no substance

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Meh2020 · 20/12/2020 16:23

The strategy is that he, whilst telling us that the Government is being guided by science, is actually being driven by his party.

Oblomov20 · 20/12/2020 16:32

I too can't understand the lack of long term planning.

nosswith · 20/12/2020 16:35

@Oblomov20 until Gordon Brown was Chancellor, government funding was allocated annually. No chance of any long-term planning, necessary for things such as defence and transport. I was told that this variable funding was why Mornington Crescent station was shut for several years, awaiting lift replacement.

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 16:35

@Oblomov20

I too can't understand the lack of long term planning.

I don't understand why more people aren't outraged by it either. We're in the same position we were a year ago, and no one seems to give a shit that they haven't used this time to come up with something decent.

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NastyBlouse · 20/12/2020 16:43

Politics doesn’t reward long-term thinking. The trend toward larger, regional hospitals and away from smaller local ones is part of the issue with capacity, I think. If we had more community hospitals and health centres there’d be better treatment options for an awful lot of people.

It’s the same with power and electricity generation. We could have invested in CHP (combined heat and power) back in the 60s and 70s and have been doubling the efficiency of fossil fuel power generation at a stroke, and consistently for the last 50 years. But it got caught up in nimbyism and never happened, so we ended up with huge power stations that waste 65% of the energy they generate. (CHP plants utilise heat recovery, meaning another 30-40% of the energy generated can be used to heat nearby buildings.)

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 16:44

@NastyBlouse

Politics doesn’t reward long-term thinking. The trend toward larger, regional hospitals and away from smaller local ones is part of the issue with capacity, I think. If we had more community hospitals and health centres there’d be better treatment options for an awful lot of people.

It’s the same with power and electricity generation. We could have invested in CHP (combined heat and power) back in the 60s and 70s and have been doubling the efficiency of fossil fuel power generation at a stroke, and consistently for the last 50 years. But it got caught up in nimbyism and never happened, so we ended up with huge power stations that waste 65% of the energy they generate. (CHP plants utilise heat recovery, meaning another 30-40% of the energy generated can be used to heat nearby buildings.)

Honestly the lack of efficiency, planning and long term outlook annoys me. People are a fucking disappointment

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Doris86 · 20/12/2020 16:58

A vaccine is the long term solution. The vaccines have been extensively tested by medical experts and proved to be 90+% effective. Why would anyone here think the vaccine isn’t going to work?

Bleughbleughbleugh12 · 20/12/2020 17:00

@Doris86 because the virus mutates and has already started

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 17:02

@Doris86

A vaccine is the long term solution. The vaccines have been extensively tested by medical experts and proved to be 90+% effective. Why would anyone here think the vaccine isn’t going to work?

Mutations, allergies, shortage of ingredients, disaster destroying an arm of production, literally anything. Until we have it in our hands, hailing it as our only option is short sighted.

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Doris86 · 20/12/2020 17:04

[quote Bleughbleughbleugh12]@Doris86 because the virus mutates and has already started[/quote]
Which was fully expected (because that’s what viruses do) has been planned for in the vaccine development, and the experts fully expect the vaccine to still work for this and any future mutations.

hula008 · 20/12/2020 17:09

So why not reintroduce the bursary for student nurses/paramedics/etc? Why not incentivise ITU training? Why not expand the hospitals we currently have? Why not invest in more doctors per patient?

I can tell you the first three are already underway.

The bursary has been reintroduced in part for nurses. This was planned before Covid.

Most hospitals are training more and more staff for ITU

A lot of hospitals (including the one I work in) have restructured or expanded to work flexibly

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 17:10

@hula008

So why not reintroduce the bursary for student nurses/paramedics/etc? Why not incentivise ITU training? Why not expand the hospitals we currently have? Why not invest in more doctors per patient?

I can tell you the first three are already underway.

The bursary has been reintroduced in part for nurses. This was planned before Covid.

Most hospitals are training more and more staff for ITU

A lot of hospitals (including the one I work in) have restructured or expanded to work flexibly

Do you have a link about the bursary?

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is2020over · 20/12/2020 17:19

@TheBuffster

Goodness, great minds. I said the same thing to my husband today. I imagine it is because this government want to privatise the NHS and this gives them a pretty good excuse.

I was thinking of this from the start of the first lockdown. Why is the NHS so overwhelmed at normal times? Why does my business have to suffer because of the NHS (I had to close my business from midnight) my business pays for the NHS doesn't it? The only thing so far I got from the NHS ever is giving birth which I could have gone private and received better care. Why was the bursaries scrapped? Why is there so many middle people? Why is there people like consultants etc (I don't mean the doctors)? Why is there so many mid management positions? Why is there so many admin staff who have plenty of time on their hands compared to frontline workers who are doing 5 people's jobs? Why did we have ppe crisis? Where does all this money go to because clearly, the money from our taxes etc is more than enough to efficiently run a hospital. So many questions, so many that I can't think of right now preparing dinner right now. Why is so many businesses suffering because of the incompetent gov and NHS.

Oblomov20 · 20/12/2020 17:20

Plus getting the vaccine out is so slow.
137,000 had it in the first week. That amount is pitiful.

UsernameN0Tavailable · 20/12/2020 17:23

Because its a continually changing situation and they don't have a crystal ball?

Back in October all the press and plenty of people on here were banging about how terrible it was they hadn't announced plans for Christmas. Now there is uproar because its changed at the last minute.

We need to stop pushing the government to plan further ahead than is realistic and then being outraged when they backtrack because the situation is changing.

firstevernamechange · 20/12/2020 17:27

Forest Nymph, you are spot on.
The problem with the vaccine is that nobody knows exactly how immunity lasts and when the virus will mutate.
This ominous new strain could throw a serious spanner in the works and it really was to be expected.

Crucially, Covid is no fun, but it's also ultimately survivable and the fact that some people (myself included) need a few months to be completely back to normal is only shocking to people who don't know how viruses work.

Reclinehard · 20/12/2020 17:30

There is a long term plan in terms of disease control - new megalabs with capacity for 600k tests a day. Agree on hospitals though

MargosKaftan · 20/12/2020 17:31

So on current rates, it'll take over a year to vaccinate all the adults who can have it (no allergies, not breastfeeding or pregnant etc), but surely hospital numbers and deaths will fall once the most vunerable /old have had the vaccination? So well before the year time frame, the number of people ill enough to need hospital treatment or dying will drop dramatically and covid will stop being a problem for the NHS?

Original poster

ForestNymph · 20/12/2020 17:32

@Oblomov20

Plus getting the vaccine out is so slow. 137,000 had it in the first week. That amount is pitiful.

Yes exactly. Even if the vaccine works, its not an instant solution

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