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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find this revelation from an NHS carer shocking?

421 replies

Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 19:50

I have a very vulnerable family member that I have not seen since covid. She is now in the late stages of alzheimers and have been starting to wonder if I will ever see her again.

Recently her carers had been visiting her whilst also going to look after a person with covid at the same time. Their highers up explicitly told them they must not inform us or other family members this was happening/the risk to her.

So far she has not caught covid but I dont feel confident about it not happening in future. AIBU to be beside myself with worry?

OP posts:
christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:21

Yep. My friend is a nurse and they're getting seriously short-staffed because the twice weekly testing regime is throwing up lots of asymptomatic cases. Excellent in terms of staff being able to self-isolate and not contribute to transmission, but impossible to maintain properly staffed wards.

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:21

@MyMonsteraisDeliciosa

People who work with covid+ patients can't possibly be isolated from covid- patients or the whole thing would grind to a halt! There's not enough of us to go round, you could all retrain as carers/nurses/radiographers/midwives/physics etc if you want though, that might help?
That is not the elderly patients fault!

It’s not their fault You are understaffed. It’s down to you as a career to whistle blow or say - ‘no this is not right’

Can you imagine a BBC news night on careers treating covid patients knowing going in to a non covid elderly patients house?

It’s a cross infection possibility . These people have been isolated from their family’s for the best part of the year - many their last year. It’s not right

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:22

And yes seriously short-staff ward are unacceptable, but a sad reality of the NHS.

Retiremental · 19/12/2020 23:22

‘How can we agree to these lockdowns when careers could be taking the virus in to there homes’

YOU lock down. YOU stop spreading the virus amongst friends, family members, your kids, who spread it to my kids, the retail workers, the hospitality staff.
I have no fucking choice about looking after the most vulnerable people in our society. We are on our fucking knees. But people like YOU who could stay the fuck at home but chose not to, will keep going until there are none of us left.
Your snotty arrogance given the news that has emerged today is staggering.

Original poster
Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 23:24

@christinarossetti19 I don't think anyone is blaming the staff are they? I know I don't blame the staff for this whole sorry mess. We are endlessly grateful to the carers.

Calling us all clueless isn't helpful. I will speak to the POA about it and see if she can get to the bottom of it. I know she is burning out and struggling to function at the moment, which is why I am trying to help figure out if there is anything we can do.

OP posts:
Russellbrandshair · 19/12/2020 23:24

Can you imagine a BBC news night on careers treating covid patients knowing going in to a non covid elderly patients house

Unless that elderly person is being tested weekly you cannot possibly assume anyone is covid free- that’s a very naive and dangerous assumption. ANY client might have it and any client might be asymptomatic. That’s why all carers should be wearing full PPE to everyone.

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:24

@Russellbrandshair

How can we agree to these lockdowns when careers could be taking the virus in to there homes

Then take this up with the government who make the damn rules, don’t take it out on care staff or NHS staff trying their best to do their jobs and keep people alive!

Geez.

The care staff should be taking it up. They are the ones doing it
baublesbaubleseverywhere · 19/12/2020 23:25

@Cardiepockets then the Newsnight report would need to be about every staff group on the NHS and social care. I like to think that Newsnight journalists would have a bit more understanding of the reality of health and social care than someone on Mumsnet.

If you're that horrified by it, by all means write to your MP. We'd love more staff

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:25

Cardiepockets it is appropriate to whistle blow if staff aren't being provided with correct PPE or aren't wearing it correctly.

It is not appropriate to whistle blow about a highly contagious virus which practically no-one has immunity to circulating around the world.

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:25

@Russellbrandshair

Can you imagine a BBC news night on careers treating covid patients knowing going in to a non covid elderly patients house

Unless that elderly person is being tested weekly you cannot possibly assume anyone is covid free- that’s a very naive and dangerous assumption. ANY client might have it and any client might be asymptomatic. That’s why all carers should be wearing full PPE to everyone.

This post was about covid positive patients.

About careers knowingly treating those patients then going in to some one else’s home.

DontStopThinkingAboutTomorrow · 19/12/2020 23:25

Cardiepockets what do you think is the solution? Leaving one group of people without care? I used to be a carer. It's a badly-paid and high pressure job with a huge turnover. People don't want to do it when you can be paid just as much for stocking shelves at a supermarket.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that in an ideal situation covid positive and covid negative people should be separated as much as possible. But the reality is, both groups need care equally and there just is not the staff to do it as it is.

Original poster
Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 23:25

@Cardiepockets I think that is easier said than done. Carers have their own jobs to think about.

OP posts:
Bleubleu · 19/12/2020 23:25

It’s not that simple. You can tell clients that your supporting a positive case. They then may decide they want to cancel care. This could actually put their health at greater risk e.g falls risk, not taking medication etc etc than a small chance they could catch covid from a carer who should theoretically not have had any breaches in PPE.

I run a charity supporting over 70 individuals. We have not had one positive case amongst staff and the people we support. If used correctly PPE does work.

People supported should be informed of procedures/policies and notified of changes when they happen.

vodkaredbullgirl · 19/12/2020 23:26

So far we have kept covid out, in our care home. No cases amongst residents, only the odd staff. Who have then had to isolate and we have had to be tested.

ChestnutStuffing · 19/12/2020 23:26

There is always a risk of cross infection in every medical facility. That's why when your GP comes in to see you she washes her hands. You have no idea who the last patient was, he might have had any number of communicable diseases.

The systems are designed to work with that because there is really little way around it. It's an issue with worse diseases than covid.

I'd be visiting my family member in that situation, however.

MyMonsteraisDeliciosa · 19/12/2020 23:26

Sigh. We literally don't have a choice. We have to provide care to everyone that needs it. We are following the rules set by our employer and the government. If you want to ensure there is no cross contamination above and beyond the limits of PPE and hygiene standards then look after your own loved ones. Don't blame us if you choose not to. We are working under immense stress and putting ourselves at risk every single shift

Russellbrandshair · 19/12/2020 23:26

The care staff should be taking it up. They are the ones doing it

We have. We’ve been told we have to do it.

Maybe instead of having a go you could, you know, support us? But you’ve shown a breathtaking lack of empathy, basic knowledge about this virus and sheer ignorance on this topic so I shouldn’t really be shocked I guess 🙄

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:27

Lizzie523 Cardiepockets is very explicitly and repeatedly blaming care staff if you read her posts.

Russellbrandshair · 19/12/2020 23:28

This post was about covid positive patients
Are you being wilfully stupid now? How do you know if a person is positive unless they are being tested every few days?

Omggggggg

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:29

@Russellbrandshair

This post was about covid positive patients Are you being wilfully stupid now? How do you know if a person is positive unless they are being tested every few days?

Omggggggg

Please go back and read the OP
Original poster
Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 23:29

@christinarossetti19 well that isn't fair. People can't seriously lay blame at carers feet. It is, as usual, the people in charge that are to blame. Yes it is a pandemic but it has not been handled well, leading to more pressure on the NHS.

OP posts:
HeyBlaby · 19/12/2020 23:30

I'm incredulous that anyone thinks tbe NHS/social care companies have enough carers and nurses to designate them to positive patients, absolutely hilarious, especially given the amount of staff isolating at any one time. Staff could whistle blow all they want, not a thing would change, complete ignorance.

shinynewapple2020 · 19/12/2020 23:32

You come across as incredibly naive @Cardiepockets

Almostslimjim · 19/12/2020 23:32

I'm a bit shocked here to read this is deemed perfectly acceptable.

What's the alternative? That they refuse to care for people who are COVID positive? What should happen to those people then?

It's pretty obvious that they'll be caring for covid positive people.

They'll also be caring for people who they have no idea about their COVID status, because not everyone gets tested.

You have no right to know the health details (or other details) of any other people they care for.

If you have a problem with it you'll have to do all the care yourself. No agency or care provider can guarantee being COVID free.

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:34

I agree that Cardiepockets is being very unfair on carers, and also that the problems are systemic arising from government incompetence.

Health and social care staff are pretty much all burnt out and struggling to function, in a similar state to your relative's POA in fact.

It's very hard seeing people becoming frailer and more unwell and not be able to help, and even harder when you can't even visit them. But the most likely scenario is that the carers are doing their absolute utmost to care for your relative and keep her safe during these terrible times.

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