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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To find this revelation from an NHS carer shocking?

421 replies

Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 19:50

I have a very vulnerable family member that I have not seen since covid. She is now in the late stages of alzheimers and have been starting to wonder if I will ever see her again.

Recently her carers had been visiting her whilst also going to look after a person with covid at the same time. Their highers up explicitly told them they must not inform us or other family members this was happening/the risk to her.

So far she has not caught covid but I dont feel confident about it not happening in future. AIBU to be beside myself with worry?

OP posts:
Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:35

@MyMonsteraisDeliciosa

Sigh. We literally don't have a choice. We have to provide care to everyone that needs it. We are following the rules set by our employer and the government. If you want to ensure there is no cross contamination above and beyond the limits of PPE and hygiene standards then look after your own loved ones. Don't blame us if you choose not to. We are working under immense stress and putting ourselves at risk every single shift
Sigh. No you really do. The ‘look after your own loved ones’ is a poor response as you’d actually be out of a job.

I don’t actually have anyone in care.

I do however have a 88 grandmother who has isolated the entire time and only spoken to us through the window. And it’s unacceptable that if she needed a career - one could breeze in dragging the virus with them.

Unless your wearing a hazmat suit you’ve every chance of passing that virus on

Original poster
Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 23:35

@Almostslimjim this actually wasnt obvious to me. Call me naive if you like and I may be, but a pregnant PP above was also upset to hear this is the case.

What is obvious to you is not obvious ans actually quite shocking to the rest of us. Now we know.

OP posts:
baublesbaubleseverywhere · 19/12/2020 23:35

@Cardiepockets I'm going to really kind and put your posts down to a complete lack of understanding of health and social care, PPE, infection control, expectations of workers in our sector and the funding provided.
Back on March, I was terrified of unwittingly infecting one of my
clients. I wanted to avoid face to face visits as much as possible. But unfortunately most of the work I do need to be face to face. Otherwise it's not effective, and people are at risk of deterioration and ending up back in hospital. So I donned my big girl pants and my PPE and I went out and did my job. I'm ok about it now. I get it. But I've had a almost a whole year as a HPC working in a pandemic to become at peace with it. You haven't. So you're where you are and I'm where I am. Just trust me when I say I know more than you, and it's not that bad.

Leannethom85 · 19/12/2020 23:37

As an NHS worker myself it is very difficult at the moment for staff, every patient has different levels of needs and we as staff are having to juggle patients around to ensure the safety of everyone. Of course nhs staff come into contact with patients with covid, they do so everyday with no thought for their own health just to ensure the patients are tended to, we don't want your mother dying, nor do we want covid patients dying or even ourselves. Someone has covid we follow strict covid rules. We remove our ppe, visors nd our masks and scrub our hands, we then put on new masks after leaving room, we could be doing that 20 to 30 times a day.

To other nhs workers have you not got your box yet? You take the test twice weekly and record it online..

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:37

[quote baublesbaubleseverywhere]@Cardiepockets I'm going to really kind and put your posts down to a complete lack of understanding of health and social care, PPE, infection control, expectations of workers in our sector and the funding provided.
Back on March, I was terrified of unwittingly infecting one of my
clients. I wanted to avoid face to face visits as much as possible. But unfortunately most of the work I do need to be face to face. Otherwise it's not effective, and people are at risk of deterioration and ending up back in hospital. So I donned my big girl pants and my PPE and I went out and did my job. I'm ok about it now. I get it. But I've had a almost a whole year as a HPC working in a pandemic to become at peace with it. You haven't. So you're where you are and I'm where I am. Just trust me when I say I know more than you, and it's not that bad. [/quote]
Well at least your happy about it!

Do you tell your clients you’ve been treating covid patients?

1FootInTheRave · 19/12/2020 23:38

If an nmc registered person refuses to provide care they can be struck off.

It is not an option.

I can't be arsed arguing the matter further with the terminally stupid on this thread.

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:38

I'm sure that frontline health and social care workers would love to be provided with full hazmat suits that they change after every patient/client/visit.

Do you honestly think carers just breeze in dragging the virus with them? Or that they are doing everything everything they can to care for people and keep them as safe as possible.

baublesbaubleseverywhere · 19/12/2020 23:38

@Leannethom85 yep have been testing for about two weeks. Not pleasant but I'm happy to do it!

saraclara · 19/12/2020 23:38

@stuffedforchristmas

I'm not sure what else they can do. Have Covid specific staff?

I would feel the same in your position. I'm just not sure what the answer is.

Flowers

That's exactly what they should do.

Someone mentioned Covid+ people being on Covid- wards. Yes, it happens. But the nursing and HCAs caring for those with Covid don't go anywhere near the bays with those who don't have it. And vv.

baublesbaubleseverywhere · 19/12/2020 23:40

@Cardiepockets if they ask me directly, which quite a few do, then yes I do, and I explain how we manage the risks. I explain to all my clients before I see them about my PPE and the precautions I take.

DontStopThinkingAboutTomorrow · 19/12/2020 23:43

Someone mentioned Covid+ people being on Covid- wards. Yes, it happens. But the nursing and HCAs caring for those with Covid don't go anywhere near the bays with those who don't have it. And vv.

You are joking? Last time I was in hospital, one nurse and 1 HCA were caring for 12 patients. If one of them tested positive (which happens fairly regularly I believe, even on negative wards), the nurse and HCA can't just stop caring for the other 11 because one is positive in one bay or side room.

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:43

@Almostslimjim

I'm a bit shocked here to read this is deemed perfectly acceptable.

What's the alternative? That they refuse to care for people who are COVID positive? What should happen to those people then?

It's pretty obvious that they'll be caring for covid positive people.

They'll also be caring for people who they have no idea about their COVID status, because not everyone gets tested.

You have no right to know the health details (or other details) of any other people they care for.

If you have a problem with it you'll have to do all the care yourself. No agency or care provider can guarantee being COVID free.

Actually adults do have the right if they are admitting HC working in to their home if they have been treating covid patients. Why do you think GP are still not in the surgery? Ours isn’t. We are still on video calls.

Because these people are elderly they are being treated like children.

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:44

[quote Lizzie523]@Almostslimjim this actually wasnt obvious to me. Call me naive if you like and I may be, but a pregnant PP above was also upset to hear this is the case.

What is obvious to you is not obvious ans actually quite shocking to the rest of us. Now we know.[/quote]
Yes, this information has come as a shock to you, that's understandable especially as the virus has spread so rapidly so quickly again and a few months ago things looked very different.

Take your time to think about this all a bit and what your options may be. The reality, if your relative needs high levels of care, will be living with the anxiety of some sort of risk, and maybe it's an awareness of that that is the difficult thing.

ClaireP20 · 19/12/2020 23:44

You haven't seen this person since covid, so since March time? Why not? Could you not have her in your bubble? Not visit but be distant? Presumably she is at home, hence attendance care, therefore she isn't living alone? Because you can't live alone if you have dementia. I can't understand why you haven't visited if she is at home, even a doorstep visit, yet are still going to complain about her care

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:46

[quote baublesbaubleseverywhere]@Cardiepockets if they ask me directly, which quite a few do, then yes I do, and I explain how we manage the risks. I explain to all my clients before I see them about my PPE and the precautions I take. [/quote]
I’m surprised they let you in. As I know my DGM and her sisters are terrified. But then I guess the people you see are completely desperate and have no choice

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:46

Cardiepockets baublesbaubleseverywhere just answered your question about what she tells patients who ask her about her contact with covid positive patients.

How is her respond 'treating people like children'?

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:48

Because you can't live alone if you have dementia.

That's not true. And it's not helpful to try to corner OP about what she has or hasn't done for her relative.

Bleubleu · 19/12/2020 23:49

Separating staff out based on positive and negative cases is fantastic in theory but just would not work for so many reasons.

Say an agency was to separate staff out based on positive and negative clients. Most of these people will be on zero hours contracts. How do you suggest the agency makes sure these people earn enough money to live on? For example as they are only visiting Covid positive clients they may only be working a couple of hours that day rather than the usual 8?!

christinarossetti19 · 19/12/2020 23:50

Or maybe they take a calculated risk Cardiepockets, as adults are perfectly entitled to do?

You know, 'well, covid isn't great but baubles has all the gear on and washes her hands and I do need her to so yes I'll let her in.'

baublesbaubleseverywhere · 19/12/2020 23:51

@Cardiepockets it's entirely up to them if they let me in or not. They are completely within their rights to refuse. They need to weigh up the risk and benefit. Which they can do, as adults with capacity to make their own decisions. By "desperate",do you mean "with a healthcare need that needs addressing"? Your way of expressing it is rather more disparaging than mine.

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:54

[quote baublesbaubleseverywhere]@Cardiepockets it's entirely up to them if they let me in or not. They are completely within their rights to refuse. They need to weigh up the risk and benefit. Which they can do, as adults with capacity to make their own decisions. By "desperate",do you mean "with a healthcare need that needs addressing"? Your way of expressing it is rather more disparaging than mine. [/quote]
Ok so weighing the risks of being fed, cleaned, dressed, having their dressing changed against someone who has been in close contact with a covid suffer is ok?

Seriously? Is that how you view it? It’s their choice?

Almostslimjim · 19/12/2020 23:55

Cardiepockets

I'm a community geriatrician (currently mainly based in the hospital, but in non COVID times split between hospital and community). No. You do not have the right to know what the patients I've treated before you have got. That applies whether I treat you on ward, in clinic or attend your home.

I'm still doing some community work and going in to care homes. I'm seeing COVID positive patients at least daily.

Cardiepockets · 19/12/2020 23:55

@christinarossetti19

Or maybe they take a calculated risk Cardiepockets, as adults are perfectly entitled to do?

You know, 'well, covid isn't great but baubles has all the gear on and washes her hands and I do need her to so yes I'll let her in.'

It’s still not a risk they should have to take ffs!
Original poster
Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 23:55

No @ClaireP20 I can't visit at present and can't have her in my bubble. The POA I mentioned at the start is in her bubble. I would love to see her so please dont try to guilt trip me about this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lizzie523 · 19/12/2020 23:56

I just hope she will yet the vaccine very soon. I just keep holding onto that.

OP posts: