To think there would be less of a housing crisis if people stopped buying second homes!

[Okunoshima]

Before anyone says anything, I understand that some people have second homes as private rentals and understand the need for rental properties

What I'm talking about is people buying second homes as holiday homes to live in on weekends/holidays/lend out to their friends.

Where I live there are a huge number of houses used solely for this purpose, and a lot of these houses are 2 beds that would make great homes for couples or families to occupy permanently. Instead they sit empty most of the time, while residents are left with the option of trying to buy (not affordable for many) or trying to find something in the tiny pool of private rentals available.

I don't understand why people can't just use hotels/B&Bs etc. They would be contributing to the local economy by doing so, and creating employment.

We have a second home. It is in the area I grew up in, close to my parents. The area has had lots of second homes since the 80s when it became popular with Londoners and it did indeed cause many of the local schools to close which meant I had a long journey to school and my Dad lost his local job. When we found ourselves in the position to buy a home in the area I felt really conflicted but in the end took the selfish choice. My husband can’t live out of London for work purposes so we could never move here full time so this is the next best thing. It has been brilliant for the kids to be able to see lots of their grandparents without us imposing on them for weeks. We live in a fairly rough and very polluted area of London and to be able to escape to fresh air and freedom with all our own things is an incredible luxury that couldn’t be replicated by staying in a B&B. We use the house for several months of the year.

I’m not trying to defend our position, just explain why we did it. As I said it is a selfish choice.

What annoys me is the long term empty properties.

In some countries, they fine people for keeping houses empty after a certain time period, then after x amount of years the property is confiscated by the state and sold. This stops towns having large numbers of abandoned boarded up houses

The issue is, there isn't one policy that fits all. I do agree that pretty tourist villages being half empty is not acceptable, and localised policy to try and curb external purchasers who don't intend to live their could be one answer.

But.. second home ownership shouldn't be blamed for the housing shortage for the majority of the UK. Selling off council houses in the 80s, and the subsequent reliance on BTL to house people who couldn't afford or had no interest in buying a house boomed to fill the gap where the government had failed to do so.

Now, we're complaining about those evil landlords / second home owners seemingly unaware that if those landlords didn't rent out their houses, their tenants wouldn't magically be able to afford to buy those houses. (Particularly if they choose to live in an expensive part of the country)

If people really wanted to buy they could. Just not in their area if choice, condition, size of choice and not whilst maintaining their current lifestyle expectations.

I skipped the 'university experience', putting my hard earned cash into buying my first house, working at 18 and going to university in the evening, whilst my school friends were out getting pissed and running up massive debt. Those same people who now drive round in fancy cars, rent 5 bedroomed houses and couldn't possibly consider a house with on street parking, and the rest, and can't believe I didn't have a massive deposit from family or other whilst whining that they'll never be.able to afford to buy. They could, of course but they just choose their lifestyle over homeownership.

Yes there would be less of a housing crisis if the housing was shared out more fairly.

Couples don't need 5 bedroom houses. They may want them, but they don't need them. Move to a smaller place and leave the bigger house for a family.

Nobody needs a second home. Stay in a hotel. There's a bit of a grey area around holiday homes used for short lets - I also don't think it's very fair to have holiday homes, but I know that some planning rules only allow certain houses to be used as holiday homes rather than permanent residences so that needs to be looked at.

Extensions need some limits eg you shouldn't be able to turn a bungalow into a house.

But also, it would help if developers were given incentives to bring empty homes back into use rather than building tat on greenfield sites. There are around half a million empty homes.

Maybe covid means we don't all need to live in the overcrowded south-east anymore too so people can live where there are houses, rather than people wanting houses built where there aren't any/enough.

@Dashel

What annoys me is the long term empty properties.

In some countries, they fine people for keeping houses empty after a certain time period, then after x amount of years the property is confiscated by the state and sold. This stops towns having large numbers of abandoned boarded up houses

Yes, there is a staggering number of them in this country.

It's "less have" not "less of" .

People could get on the ladder, as you say, but not perhaps in their area, condition or size of property, of choice. Being an old battleaxe, I'd say, fluff, if you want a house, you will inevitably have to compromise somewhere.

I'm not a fan of second homes, but at present there is nothing unlawful about it, and there never will be as long as members of the Royal Family all own multiple homes.

We have a holiday home. Nothing grand; a gift. It gives lots of people short breaks and holidays. People using it pour money into a struggling local economy and there is no shortage of houses locally.

Our other property is a very long term let of our old family home. The tenants have a secure home in which to raise their family. The respect the property and we’re good landlords. Works well.

@cologne4711

Yes there would be less of a housing crisis if the housing was shared out more fairly.

Couples don't need 5 bedroom houses. They may want them, but they don't need them. Move to a smaller place and leave the bigger house for a family.

Nobody needs a second home. Stay in a hotel. There's a bit of a grey area around holiday homes used for short lets - I also don't think it's very fair to have holiday homes, but I know that some planning rules only allow certain houses to be used as holiday homes rather than permanent residences so that needs to be looked at.

Extensions need some limits eg you shouldn't be able to turn a bungalow into a house.

But also, it would help if developers were given incentives to bring empty homes back into use rather than building tat on greenfield sites. There are around half a million empty homes.

Maybe covid means we don't all need to live in the overcrowded south-east anymore too so people can live where there are houses, rather than people wanting houses built where there aren't any/enough.

I get that @cologne4711 but these are privately bought houses. Bought and paid for.

Surely your not suggesting they just give them up?

Town planner here. Actually it's not second homes that is the main problem. The biggest cause of housing shortage is actually down to divorce (particularly the over 50s). And of course a growing population. Second homes tend to be in coastal areas and cause locals to be outpriced, although local councils tend to have policies in place to allow affordable housing specifically for locals in such areas.

It’s all very well advocating nobody should own a holiday let, I’m assuming you’ve never wanted to stay in self catering accommodation?

The royals don't own that many homes, they're part of the Crown Estate mainly. And most of us wouldn't be able to afford even the smallest of theirs. I am not a purchaser for Windsor or Sandringham, not even for Frogmore Cottage.

There are over 250,000 second homes in the uk so this could really help the housing shortage - half a million or more citizens could be housed if second homes were no longer allowed.

We have a holiday home but it's shared amongst the wider family and is rarely empty. We also have a rental which we bought to rent out to my brother at half price rent - he was really struggling before we did that. At the end of it all there is provision for our kids to get on the property ladder, so none of it is wasted. And rental properties are much needed, thanks to Thatcher's dreadful idea of letting people buy their council properties and not replacing them so that there was a deficit of social housing.

Won't comment on Snog's post, except to say delusionary. If I were to buy a second or third or fourth house (which I couldn't) out of earned, taxed income, nothing is stopping me. Last time I looked, it was still legal to buy what you want.

Do you live in Cornwall, OP? I do.
What I object to most is the fact second home owners wriggle out of paying council tax. And in many cases seem to have scammed Covid grants, claiming they let their homes out. No questions were asked. We know of dozens of examples.
I can (just about) accept that people Have the right to spend their money as they please but taking the piss by scrounging and not contributing is inexcusable

Also, just to burst a few myths, no govt has paid for/built affordable/council type housing since the 70s. It's the private sector that funds affordable housing and passes the costs on to the private buyers through what is known as a S106 agreement. In essence they pay a lump sum to the council to go towards the provision of local services Inc housing. In larger developments (usually 9+ dwellings, but it can be much more restrictive ) a proportion of the property (usually 30%) has to be set aside onsite for affordable/social housing. This is why some coastal councils allow large new builds as second homes, because not only the benefit to the local economy re building etc, but also because of the money that can be used to go towards providing social housing and towards other amenities. Also, second home owners tend to visit an area year round, whereas most people tend to visit coastal resorts in the summer months which causes economic instability. It's a complex system and policies vary around the country, but it's not as simple as banning second home ownership, although in some places this could certainly help.

@alwayslatte

In fairness though successive govts have all failed to build council houses. I don't think that it can be pinned on Margaret Thatcher. The govts since simply couldn't afford to keep on building them. And no one wants taxes raised. So, the result is that the private sector bridges the gap, which means that the costs are past on to any private home owner. It's a bit like a hidden tax that people are unaware of. There are also good reasons for the govt not building council houses themselves. To make it economic to do so, they would have to build large estates or blocks of flats, as they used to do. But this then concentrates poverty in areas and causes stagnation, whereas when the houses are integrated within private developments, this happens much much less.

Passed. Not past. Damn autocorrect.

Of course! There should be a much higher tax levy on 2nd homes & foreign ownership.

It can absolutely be pinned on Thatcher. Right to buy was her flagship policy, specifically designed to bribe working class voters. Council rents paid for new housing stock, social housing was never funded through taxation.

Absolutely second home owners have decimated our local communities and pushed up prices in the area. They should be taxed onto oblivion along with buy to letters.

I'm a foreigner and I have naively assumed that (like back home) the second homes are not houses that could be lived year around and considered proper homes.

My family ha s a second home like does everyone else I know and they are a very basic cabin in the woods or by water that cannot be a 'home'. My in laws live in Cornwall and I do have to say that the second homes are like homes. This has never occurred to me before 😅

@Kendodd I agree homes being left sat empty is obscene!

There should be higher rate council tax and fines in those situations

@HarrietSchulenberg I'm also in a deprived county that has "picturesque" areas where developers throw up 4/5/6 bed properties that are WAY out of reach to local buyers and are bought as second/holiday homes by people who rarely spend time in them. We are in desperate need of smaller properties, I live alone in a 2 bed and bedroom tax mitigated by Scots measures which shows how out of touch with basic info govt is because if I COULD move into a 1 bed place or even a studio I would but there simply aren't any! Not even in the private market around here.

@caringcarer Exactly who do you think IS responsible for house prices, wage levels, cost of living? It isn't the poor! They have no control over ANY of that

@Didyousaynutella Personally I think the very rich should be the first ones targeted with such measures. I am also for a republic so yes I would have the majority of royal houses turned into genuine tourist attractions belonging to the country rather than the current falsehood!

but second homes also provide jobs in the area, such as employing local tradespeople to do them up and eating in local restaurants.

That's nothing compared to the damage they do to that economy

It doesn't provide a benefit overall.

@Plussizejumpsuit I think you and I would get along very well!

There's huge inequality in this country that needs addressed and housing is a crucial part of that. A home is a basic need that is not being met for far far too many

Blame the government and not market forces. who do you think has the greatest influence on market forces?

Locals DON'T have the same opportunity to buy them at all because the prices are pushed up by non locals paying over the odds and gradually prices rise overall.

@bobbikato the reason tradesman & builders can charge higher prices too though is because the training has all but disappeared so there's fewer of them - supply and demand but policy has manipulated the market!

This has not happened by accident!

Holiday maker boosts to economy are minimal and unpredictable at best, and any money spent by holiday makers can be outweighed by what they cost an area at worst.

I used to live in one place popular for stag/hen do's and similar and the damage those visitors did and those costs far outweighed what they spent! As pp said even little things like bringing groceries from home means they're not spending in the grocery shops where the holiday home is located, they often don't buy other items locally either bringing bedding and similar purchases that were bought in their 1st homes location and taking those to 2nd homes, not totally uncommon too for them to employ trades people from home towns to work on 2nd homes that aren't too far away.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz agree right to buy was an appalling policy and compounded as you say by those social homes not being replaced.

House prices would plummet. People would be trapped in negative equity, banks would be screwed and would start with shitty mortgage terms

If properly managed better housing policies would mean that the housing market would balance out.

But if someone has the money to buy two homes, surely that’s their business

No. Because they don't exist in a vacuum! They still want their bins collected, electricity and gas supplies working, street lighting working, roads in good condition, water supply safe and reliable... in that house as well as their 1st home, how do they expect all that to happen if they're not paying proper council taxes and contributing to the costs of that infrastructure ALL YEAR? They also expect the local area to remain culturally the same which doesn't happen with the local people being able to afford to live and work there, not to mention the moral aspects!

@HarryLimeFoxtrot maybe you should. At the very least you should ensure you contribute to that community properly all year around

If people really wanted to buy they could

Oh really?! I'm disabled and on benefits how am I supposed to buy?

What about my many friends and relatives working nmw jobs and receiving top up benefits just to afford basic living costs and who don't remotely live extravagantly?

How about my friends and relatives made redundant this year due to covid?

@Daphnise there are plenty of laws the population is subjected to which the royal family are exempt from