To think the only way forward now for school staff is to strike in Jan

[OverTheRainbow88]

Sadly, I believe, the only way forward now for school staff in to strike in Jan.

Schools are unsafe, understaffed and not ‘covid secure’. This will get much worse in Jan when people are allowed to meet inside in a 3 household bubble and travel freely around ( in England at least).

Well look to be fair and a bit more balanced, because I realise I've been quite one-sided so far...

I also had some contact with some really fantastic school staff - one really outstanding teacher in particular. I was extremely frustrated at the significant number I was aware of that were having a really easy time of it, and then finding every excuse about why they couldn't go back to work. I'm used to getting things done, not making excuses, and I admit that those people have probably tainted my view because I imagine every school has them. Hopefully it's not as prevalent as I fear.

Yes I can imagine that it's very cold at school, you have my sympathy on that.

Yes I agree that the funding of schools leaves a lot to be desired and I've put in a lot of time and money over the years to support our school.

I have absolutely no desire to retrain to be a teacher, for lots of reasons. I worked in a school for a while and loved it, but it's not a career choice I'd be looking to make at my stage in life.

I don't mean that teachers are cowards, what I mean is that some are too easily scared and worried, but I think that's true of so many people in different jobs (or no jobs) - the lack of resilience bothers me, and I feel angry that some people have relished the opportunity to create panic and fear among others.

I think you might be right that I'm projecting things onto teachers than is really fair. Some are good, some are not.

@Hippywannabe

I have been a TA for over 20 years, my role has changed from hearing readers and doing menial tasks to covering classes during that time. I am responsible for anything from changing a stoma bag to injecting insulin. All of that has been fine, I would want someone who cares to do it for my child if needed. I just want to feel safe in my school, we have worked so hard since March (and yes, we all volunteered to work over Easter holidays too). I am so worried about January now. The idea of being responsible for potentially swabbing 30 children daily is frightening. Who will take the fall if one of them is accidentally hurt? Some parents are not maintaining the rules now so I dread to think what will happen over the holidays. I don't want to strike, I just want to be safe at school.

Some teachers as well not just parents. I think teachers think they are an endangered species, sick of hearing you moan.

I'm sick of hearing people moan about teachers. Got any other punching bags you'd care to give a bit of a workout for a change?

@bornatXmastobequiet

Well, while so many teachers and TAs I know were alternating between drinking tea in their garden or making wonderful engaging programs of learning for their own children

Drinking tea! And in the garden, of all places!
Looking after their children! Oh the shame of it.

You've missed the point - which is that a lot of the teachers and TAs I know had these "luxuries" compared to most of us and yet still complained about their lot - having to go into school for one day when it's your turn, oh the horror!

On the other hand one of the office staff was there every single day, uncomplaining.

Why are nursery staff or private school staff not threatening to strike?

Teachers are not. No ballot in England.

However nursery and private school staff haven’t been told to work over Christmas to set up an on-site covid testing lab that will actually make their working conditions even less safe.

@quietish

That's a much fairer and more reasonable post. I appreciate you putting across your actual views rather than your initial post, which I imagine was an emotional response.

It still gripes with me that your first concession is about the temperature. Yes it's cold, but the main issue is the presence of covid. A recent ONS survey suggests that 1.4% of pupils and staff in secondary schools are in school with covid on any one day (though this data is from a small sample set and is therefore not conclusive). That would mean one case in every 2.3 classes. Secondary teachers often see 5 classes per day. So that means exposure to 2 cases a day, for an hour each, on average. Slightly more concerning than the cold.

And its not just teachers worried about themselves. I have covid now but I don't want other pupils or staff to get it next term. So shouting about how dangerous schools are is still important, even if I won't be directly affected again.

I was also interested in the comments about Covid death by occupation. The data analysed does just cover the period to May. I found some in Scotland until August, but I guess the post lockdown data is the interesting bit.

So I looked at the daily deaths by age:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

These are published weekly and include December. I was looking at the 15-44 and 45-65 age groups. These are broadly working age and one would assume includes most teachers.

Every one of these deaths are obviously a tragedy. However it is clear that the death rate pre lockdown 1 was much higher than now. Yes the rate fell considerably in lockdown. Yes it has risen since. It is still considerably lower than in April.

Of course I have no idea of the occupation of these poor people. However it is also clear that deaths in working people is still considerably lower than it was.

Am sure that would not be very reassuring for the multiple colleagues of dh currently off with Covid. NHS. Am sure it's also not very reassuring for teachers.

Do I think the planned testing in schools is enough? Of course not. It's a step in the right direction. Hopefully more will follow.

quietish, I reckon the 'projection' comment by another poster was bang on the nail. I'm sorry things are hard for you at the moment. I truly, sincerely am.

They're hard for a lot of people. Including many teachers. It sucks all round. May 2021 be better. For all of us. But most of all, for you, for teachers, and for their students, our children.

I think strike action would be a huge mistake. You wouldn't have popular support, especially when you consider others working in the NHS, police, social services all the rest of public services. Also retail workers, lower paid and who have always woked throughout the pandemic and been at more risk. Why would the public see you as any more deserving?

We are in a crisis situation. A walkout would make your profession seem self absorbed and petty

Op, do you imagine that other workplaces are safe? They certainly are not.
Other workplaces have social distancing and masks. Schools do not. Other workplaces are “Covid Secure”. Schools are not.

Why are teachers' lives any more important than anyone else
Why are teachers’ lives any less important than anyone else? Others have Covid Secure workplaces or WFH. Teachers deserve the same safety.

If keeping schools open leads to the death of 10 teachers but prevents 200 suicides amongst teenagers it is clearly the least bad option
I disagree. It’s unacceptable for people to be dying because their employer hasn’t made sufficient effort to provide a safe workplace. Teenagers are not the responsibility of their teachers - they’re the responsibility of their parents. Teachers can’t be expected to give their lives for their pupils.

You've missed the point

No, I entirely got the point. You were having a go at teachers.

I personally freely admit to drinking tea in my garden during lockdown. I also freely admit to working well beyond my contracted hours supporting my (adult) learners, including in the evenings and at weekends, because those times worked better for them, given they had to perhaps juggle childcare and working from home.

And I know many other teachers who worked unconscionable hours providing the best quality education they could, also while looking after their own children.

Tilder not deaths but positive rates. Also clearing up a recent ONS issue that a few thought off - I did too so I’m glad they brought some clarity and transparency.

www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/onsstatementaddressingquestionsaroundtheanalysisofthenumberofschoolworkerskeyworkersandotherprofessionsinenglandwhohadcovid19

We need to prioritise teachers to receive the COVID vaccine to at least afford them some protection.

Teachers need to be high up on the vaccination list. They should be following other key workers like care/healthcare staff.

@bornatXmastobequiet with all due respect, your last update illustrates that you have missed my point. I wasn't having a go at all teachers - I was voicing frustration at the number of teachers I knew who were "enjoying the holiday" and then had the nerve to complain about the prospect of having to return to work. Many of the teachers and TAs I know did not have to do a single day's work when schools were closed to most. Some of them recognised their fortunate position being able to provide their own children's education at home and enjoy leisurely summer afternoons in their garden. Others complained about schools reopening and said they couldn't possibly reopen and be expected to teach in school. I'm pleased to hear they're a minority because that attitude absolutely stinks.

@Bathroom12345 you say “not all teachers” and then start insulting sentences with “teachers need to...” So which is it? You’re insulting an entire profession who have been working incredibly hard, lots of us have worked through lockdown (no, definitely not as demanding for me personally as normal schooling but still going in every single day 8-4). We are individual people who don’t deserve to be lumped into one “lazy” group. You have absolutely no idea what it’s been like this term, just as I have no idea how hard it’s been in other jobs. Somehow I manage to refrain from posting sweeping statements about them.

If they did exactly HOW would that help anybody? Please explain.

Many of the teachers and TAs I know did not have to do a single day's work when schools were closed to most.

Go on then. How many teachers and TAs do you know? How do you know they didn’t have to do a single day’s work during lockdown? If that actually was the case, did you really think they were representative of all teachers and TAs, sufficiently so to make sweeping generalisations on here? It certainly read as though you were having a go at all teachers.

quietish, how do you know so much detail about what teachers and TAs were doing in lockdown? Were they writing a daily diary? Posting pictures on Facebook of themselves sitting in the garden drinking tea?

I know a lot of teachers and TAs, and don’t know that much detail about their lives.

My personal experience as school admin is that lockdown was incredibly stressful - I was trying to work from home at a very busy time of year (Y12 enrolment) using clunky IT systems that were never designed to be used in this way, whilst looking after my own children. I spent a lot of time helping students with their IT issues so they could access their work. I often worked into the evening to catch up on whatever I hadn’t had got done in the day. I don’t recognise this picture of laziness you paint and it saddens me that people feel this way.

It’s amazing how people who were actually furloughed don’t get this kind of shit, but people who actually worked through lockdown get consistently told they did fuck all. Maybe I hallucinated those months of work?! Who knows!

[quote MarshaBradyo]Tilder not deaths but positive rates. Also clearing up a recent ONS issue that a few thought off - I did too so I’m glad they brought some clarity and transparency.

www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/onsstatementaddressingquestionsaroundtheanalysisofthenumberofschoolworkerskeyworkersandotherprofessionsinenglandwhohadcovid19[/quote]
You think it's ok that there's no evidence that teachers are at less risk of infection than frontline healthcare workers and a suggestion that they, in fact, are?

Interested to know how many of those suggesting that a strike is ridiculous have seen how a school is operating at the moment? I have experience in a school and do not believe that strike action is the right thing but I completely understand those people who feel they have the right to take action. It’s been crazy!

@mushycarrots21

Interested to know how many of those suggesting that a strike is ridiculous have seen how a school is operating at the moment? I have experience in a school and do not believe that strike action is the right thing but I completely understand those people who feel they have the right to take action. It’s been crazy!

Well, I’m a teacher and I think a strike is ridiculous.

@Squidsister to answer your questions: yes, it's what they've openly shared, sometimes on Facebook but not always, it's sometimes been in normal conversation or what's app chats or whatever.

Your own experience sounds a lot like the office staff I mentioned earlier, who worked very hard in there day after day without complaint.

I didn’t make a comment on the data. Linked it for pp. Other professions was the part that interested me.