To think smoking should now be banned in public spaces?

[MrsKingfisher]

I saw on the news footage of people Christmas shopping in London and people sitting outside in cafes etc. Given the current situation should public smoking be banned? Not only because it stinks and it's anti social but more people are now meeting outside due to covid. I don't believe there is any evidence that breathing out smoke spreads the virus anymore than normal breathing. It's just selfish, non smokers no longer can be told 'if you don't like it go inside'

Can we ban alcohol as well then? My father died a horrible undignified painful death due to alcohol related liver failure. I think the risks of alcohol are also well documented.
Yes they are
But someone drinking alcohol near me doesn't subject my body to the by products of their alcohol.

Thinking about it how about sugar? Dental problems, obesity yes sugar needs banning as well.
Someone eating chocolate next to me doesn't cause my body to fill with the byproducts of their sugar.
Someone being obese doesn't cause a magical obesity toxin to enter my body and affect my vital organs.

There is so much whataboutery on here and none of the examples given involve the actions of one person causing toxins to enter other people's bodies in the same way second hand smoke affects people.

Yep, ban it. Fumes from cars and industry etc are a necessary evil, which we all benefit use at some point. Though of course should be strictly regulated.

Smoking is pointless pollution - do it yourself, fine, but there’s no moral justification to inflict this health hazed on others.

It's not a weak character. It's a single weakness in one area which many people have, be that food, alcohol, shopping etc. Yes argue away that those people don't affect others, though I agree with a pp re all the damage alcohol causes to others! But I don't believe that a single whiff of cigarette smoke outside is going to give someone cancer anyway. It may be unpleasant, but there are things I find unpleasant which are out of my control and I can't expect people to stop doing those things.

Addicts should be treated sympathetically not as per usual on here: sneered at for being Disgusting, smelly a weak useless druggie or whatever. The modern day leper of society.

Absolutely this. People get addicted to things for all sorts of reasons: trauma, abuse, neglect etc, so I really don't get sneery comments on here. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been turned into a class-war yet ...

@LolaSmiles
Alcohol? Totally different. When I drink a beer, I don’t pour 10% of it down a strangers throat. That is what smokers are effectively doing.

even better why don't we all just stay at home and allow you to pollute our outdoor spaces

Yes I think you should stay at home if you don't like it. You don't get to set the rules. And the government is very unlikely to ban smoking anyway. Suck it up buttercup.

I'm very anti smoking but yabu. We live in enough of a nanny state.

As a non-smoker, my response to this is a big fat no. It worries me how effortlessly we now seem to move from "X irritates me" to "X should be banned!!!!" Given that a waft of cigarette smoke in the outdoors poses literally no risk whatsoever to anyone else, you basically want it banned for the extremely mild aesthetic inconvenience it may cause you, which is a pretty terrible basis for legislating against something.

@Meruem
Second hand smoke is a health hazard. The only question is whether or not it a justifiable one. I don’t think it is.

Lola Its a valid argument in that people's excessive drinking can negatively impact others. Hundreds of innocent people are killed by drink drivers for example, noise pollution, the fact that you can't get seen at A and E on a Friday because it's full of drunk people.

The NHS is groaning under the strain of our obesity crisis and its co morbidities (30 000 UK deaths due to obesity) last year)which impacts anyone needing treatment.

So yes, those issues could impact your health more than walking past a few people smoking outside.

In theory, if people were considerate, outside public smoking is ok. But in reality people aren’t considerate. They puff away while standing at the crowded bus stop and train station giving everyone else 15 minutes of second hand smoke. They puff away walking around crowded outside shopping areas surrounded by children.
We all want a free society, but the price of that is acting like a responsible and considerate grown up. If you can’t do that and act like a selfish prick you can’t then whine when your right to X is taken away.

Fumes from cars and industry etc are a necessary evil, which we all benefit use at some point. Though of course should be strictly regulated

Tell you what - why don't we bring in regs to say folk can generally only use their cars for essntial purposes and organise some sort of permit to allow limited other use?

We could have an exciting new range of fines, lots of meetings and focus groups to waste money ... oh, and the Covid snoopers would be in seventh heaven

Bless you OP you sound like you need a big cuddle and a good night's sleep.

I love it when someone starts a thread so angry and then thinks it's just because they are on the internet that they are called unhinged.

What do you think would happen if you walked into a group of people and raved and told them they should all go home and smoke themselves to death?

Do you think they would say, oh shes absolutely 100% mentally well. Totally not unhinged at all 😂😂

Take your arguments to the street and when you sit next to someone outside the pub and they light up a fag go up and say to them,

Sorry I know you can't smoke inside but im kind of sitting outside and i dont smoke so.... can you go home to smoke please you selfish cunt? I'm enjoying the 'fresh' air in this exact area at this exact moment and cba to move back inside or round the corner.'

@Cam77

In theory, if people were considerate, outside public smoking is ok. But in reality people aren’t considerate. They puff away while standing at the crowded bus stop and train station giving everyone else 15 minutes of second hand smoke. They puff away walking around crowded outside shopping areas surrounded by children. We all want a free society, but the price of that is acting like a responsible and considerate grown up. If you can’t do that and act like a selfish prick you can’t then whine when your right to X is taken away.

Well, there won't be anything to moan about because the 'right' won't be taken away as the idea is absolutely batshit.

I think smoking is a pretty awful habit and maybe outside places could be separated. The problem is that a lot of people (including smokers) aren't considerate and blow smoke everywhere. I have asthma which is exacerbated by smoking - when I have said something I have met with horrible comments and told to go home.

It's a hard one

@Bleughbleughbleugh12
^What about when you're trying to leave a restaurant or a shop and the door is blocked by clouds of smoke. Or when its raining and someones smoking under the bus shelter.
^
It’s already against the existing ‘no smoking’ legislation to smoke at doorways (and windows)
For bus stops it depends on the type of bus stop. If enclosed then it’s illegal, if it has enough gaps then it’s not illegal but does tend to be against bus companies policies (some put up the illegal stickers even when the actual shelter didn’t fall within the regulations)

@MrsKingfisher
You’re being unreasonable to suggest banning in public spaces, but not unreasonable to suggest it shouldn’t be allowed in some public spaces
Ideally a cafe etc with outside seating could allocate smoking and non smoking areas

I'd ban smoking completely, given half a chance but there is too much taxation from it, too many rich Tories invested in it and too powerful a tobacco lobby.
Its revolting. It kills people. It makes people smell. It damages the health of children. The litter of old cigarette ends is disgusting but its not about to be banned, unfortunately.

Can we ban alcohol as well then? My father died a horrible undignified painful death due to alcohol related liver failure. I think the risks of alcohol are also well documented.

But someone drinking alcohol near me doesn't subject my body to the by products of their alcohol. You don't have a sense of smell then because I hate the smell of alcohol on someones breath. Ever seen a drunk vomiting in the street, not that unusual or even urinating in the street. I find that more offensive than smoke, I used to work in a town centre office and not at all unusual to arrive at work and find vomit on the pavement.

Thinking about it how about sugar? Dental problems, obesity yes sugar needs banning as well.

Someone eating chocolate next to me doesn't cause my body to fill with the byproducts of their sugar.
Someone being obese doesn't cause a magical obesity toxin to enter my body and affect my vital organs.

Ever sat next to someone obese on a plane? The squashing can make your vital organs uncomfortable.

I'll give you another example, my DH has allergies, quite serious allergies, and he'd like to ban perfume as it affects him quite badly. He is disabled and if you come near him wafting your perfume he may start to sneeze repeatedly which is extremely painful for him due to his condition and could cause further damage.

Do you ever use a car or other vehicle which uses petrol or diesel? Causes lots of pollution you know, has caused severe problems for asthmatics. So be absolutely honest now, have you ever used a vehicle when it wasn't absolutely necessary? Could you have walked to that shop, did you really need to go out and meet friends, do you really need a holiday, why not just stay home and avoid polluting the atmosphere.

You see there are all sorts of things that cause problems for people, for you it is smoke but you could easily be doing something that is dangerous for someone else.

It would be easier all round if inconsiderate people could be banned.

[quote Cam77]@Meruem
Second hand smoke is a health hazard. The only question is whether or not it a justifiable one. I don’t think it is.[/quote]
Prolonged day to day & year to year exposure (ie living with a heavy smoker or smokers, as I did growing up) to second hand smoke in poorly ventilated indoor spaces has some health risk. What we're discussing doesn't, really it doesn't. Its very mildly irritating, in the same way that my neighbour's weirdly smokey BBQ habits are very mildly irritating (well quite irritating actually ).

Of course not.
If someone is smoking and you don't like it, either wait for them to leave or go somewhere else.

@OuiOuiKitty

I don't really have strong feelings on this either way. I feel like if you go somewhere that there is a strong possibility someone might smoke then you are making a choice to go there and should suck it up. Its like going to a pub and complaining there are drunk people being loud and obnoxious. Going to a playground and complaining there are screaming kids. You know that there may be smokers there when you choose to go so acting put out when you get there seems silly. If restaurants or wherever feel they are losing business because of smokers they can always choose to have a non smoking premises, most that I know of don't so it can't be a major issue that is raised.

If you choose to go somewhere like the station? The tube station for my office has its entrance next to the entrance of a shopping centre. There is a designated smoking area next to it, but people use the whole area to smoke so you can’t get past without breathing it, and it’s got a roof over it too so it doesn’t dissipate much. I can’t avoid using this station just because smokers are being knobs, nor should I have to.

@SmileyClare there’s be nobody left in the world if you did that unfortunately absolutely everyone is inconsiderate in their own way, even if they don’t realise it. It’s impossible to go about considering the needs and wants of everyone and every thing in the world

That's a good point somewhere If smokers don't have outdoor private space and are prohibited from smoking in any outdoor public area they're far more likely to smoke indoors around others.

@OffredOfjune I’d not call her weak either. I hope her life took a better turn (and that yours wasn’t subjected to abuse either)