To think smoking should now be banned in public spaces?

[MrsKingfisher]

I saw on the news footage of people Christmas shopping in London and people sitting outside in cafes etc. Given the current situation should public smoking be banned? Not only because it stinks and it's anti social but more people are now meeting outside due to covid. I don't believe there is any evidence that breathing out smoke spreads the virus anymore than normal breathing. It's just selfish, non smokers no longer can be told 'if you don't like it go inside'

Have you read it, Eleganz - in particular the references to sources used - or was it merely an attempt to discredit a report which doesn't suit?

Yep I've read it. It is an overly simplistic economic analysis that claims that intangibles have no value and does not properly consider the economic activity of those receiving the state pension.

Exactly what you'd expect from some one with a history degree pretending to be an economist.

It is just part of a long list of pro-tobacco output by the IEA and this author.

@MrsKingfisher

My reasoning is more people are now sitting outside due to covid whereas before they could sit inside to avoid those who choose to smoke, it also stinks and I maintain that those who take the stance of 'it's a free country I can smoke outside' without any care for those around them who may not be smokers are selfish. Go home and smoke! It's not a vice it's a disgusting habit that doesn't just affect the smoker.

I am an ex smoker. You can’t expect people to live life a certain way because you don’t agree with their choices. Okay, if they came and sat right next to you on purpose blowing smoke in your face, that would be rude and disrespectful and selfish. But you could always ask to be moved away from a smoker (and before the ‘why should i’ then Why should you not? You are not superior just because you don’t like someone else’s habit especially if they were there first) and if there’s nowhere to sit outside one particular cafe except near a smoker then you might just not have to eat or drink at that cafe/bar. That would solve that problem! Sorry. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Both of these points. I find it really difficult to comprehend why smokers think they have the right to find people not wanting to be around them offensive: if you have an anti-social, mutually harmful habit you will receive criticism for it.
The thing is I won't be criticising anyone for smoking.
I just find the usual arguments put forward by those who think their desire to fill their lungs with crap overrides everyone else's desire not to inhale smoke to be rather childish.

Just on this thread:

• but you didn't mind when we were outside in the pouring rain (actually many people did have an issue with smoking in outdoor areas as it essentially prevents anyone from sitting outside unless they want to inhale the byproducts of someone else's vice, if smokers decide they want to stand in the rain to fill their lungs with crap then that's up to them)
• I dont like people being drunk so why don't you ban alcohol (sitting on a table next to someone having a few too many beers doesn't harm my body)
• but what about sugar, but what about fatty foods (again someone eating fatty food near me doesn't affect my health)
• more whataboutery for things that don't equal other people having to breathe in clouds of toxins
• but we are already kicked out like stray dogs!
• but it's just a preference and we don't ban things based on preference. I'd rather not smell perfume / fast food but I have to (smelling fast food is not the same to inhaling second hand smoke)
• but whatabout air pollution?
• but whatabout microplastics?
• I'll stop when you stop driving your car
• if you don't like smoke then go home/ move tables
• why are you all snowflakes!!!

I'm not in favour of banning it in all public places, but would love it banned in outdoor seating areas for venues and hospitality. So far I've not heard a decent reason why a minority of the population should be able to prevent the majority from reasonable outdoor seating unless they accept the harmful impact of second hand smoke on their bodies.

So, I am outside at a cafe, having a coffee and a cigarette. Someone is sitting at the table next to me with booze on their breath, garlic sweats and BO. They are changing their babie's stinking shitty nappy on the table while it screams the place down.

The stench they are exuding makes me want to throw up but I am the one who stinks, is unsociable and needs legislating against.

Plenty of things stink and plenty of things give off toxins but only smokers get such abuse for it.

No. Chances of it spreading covid are slim.
Tobacco sales are doing better than ever this year.

Plenty of things stink and plenty of things give off toxins but only smokers get such abuse for it.
Maybe because as seen on this thread they act like they're a giant victim if people point out they don't want to inhale second hand smoke.

I'm in favour of clean air zones in cities and improving public transport to improve air quality for all.
I think smokers who argue 'but this other smell is annoying so people should stop taking an issue with me smoking a stick full of toxins next to them... so what that it fills their lungs with smoke, I'm a victim' need to realise that that attitudes to smoking are changing.

I haven’t seen any of this alleged victimhood on this thread I’ve seen a shitload of intolerance from people who want it all ways.

Smokers meekly rolled over when the smoking ban came into force - this wasn’t the case in many other parts of Europe where people just ignore it. They accepted that they couldn’t smoke indoors where their second hand smoke wouldn’t damage other people’s health. They even accepted unnecessary restrictions like not being allowed to smoke on open air station platforms.

It seemed that the more accommodating smokers became, the more extreme tobacco haters became. The point has now been reached when smoking, which generates £ billions in tax, is vilified beyond all reason. It’s a shame those who vilify smoking aren’t as tolerant as those they vilify.

Second hand smoke is harmless in the open air. I’m a reformed smoker, I’ve been tobacco free for more than eight years now and I still love the smell of fresh smoke, not that I smell it much any more because you have to nearly sit on a smoker’s lap to get a whiff outside.

The Other things smell argument is flimsy yes. However, smoking is banned quite extensively already. Off the top of my head; in all indoor public areas, some outside areas, and cars with children. Some outside seating areas (restaurants) already have designated smoking sections.

I think that's adequate legislation.

Banning smoking in all public areas is an absurd suggestion.

Smoking has become socially unacceptable so most (not all) of the small fraction of the population that do smoke (around 14% ) are considerate of those around them. Most people are aware that's it's unacceptable to smoke standing in a queue for example. Most will move if asked politely.

Posters claiming smokers are always puffing smoke in their faces in every outdoor seating area are exaggerating aren't they? It's not my experience. At the moment it's too bloody cold to hang about on outdoor seats anyway.

You'll always get the odd inconsiderate arsehole of course. Unfortunately you can't ban arseholes from public areas.

It absolutely stinks so I would personally welcome a ban.

Non smoker here. YABU. theres almost nowhere left for people to smoke as.it.is

Come on, think that sort of ban through. A smoker on a long car journey wants to stop for a cigarette. They're an addict after all. How are they going to find a private area not open to the public?

A tourist staying in a non smoking hotel on holiday. Where will they smoke if not in a public area?

Homeless people live in public areas. Should they be arrested and fined every time they light up their little roll up fag?

For me it’s beyond intolerance. It’s the hypocrisy of making a fuss about blurry images on Facebook, being furious that their child didn’t get a gold star, complaining about children being told they can’t run riot in public places but thinking its acceptable to place their children at increased risk of significant harm and possibly dying because they close tobacco over their child.

They choose tobacco.

You’re assuming every smoker has small children @CherryPavlova. Most don’t.

People can argue this until they are blue in the face, a total ban will never happen.

I'm with you OP. I don't think it should be banned everywhere but it would be nice to be able to sit outside to eat and not have someone else's smoke wafting over.

VinylDetective
I don't think it should be banned everywhere in public, just that it shouldn't be allowed in outdoor hospitality areas. Or there needs to be meaningfully separate areas, not those old thigh height fences we used to have in shopping centre food courts.

Maybe it was the people and relatives I knew but there wasn't any rolling over when the smoking restrictions came in. There seemed plenty of complaining about how awful it was that people couldn't light up anywhere.

Posters claiming smokers are always puffing smoke in their faces in every outdoor seating area are exaggerating aren't they?
Some might be, but walking round a local town on a weekend and there's clouds of smoke every time you walk past a pub or restaurant because there's always several smokers stood just outside the doorway. The places worth going to have bouncers telling them to move away from the door because people shouldn't have to navigate clouds of smoke to enter somewhere to drink.

@VinylDetective

You’re assuming every smoker has small children *@CherryPavlova*. Most don’t.

No not at all. Many do but of course the impact on fertility means many don’t. The risks are not only to small children.

but there wasn't any rolling over when the smoking restrictions came in. There seemed plenty of complaining about how awful it was that people couldn't light up anywhere.

Unless those people are insisting on smoking inside, they rolled over. As I’ve already pointed out, a lot of smokers in other countries just ignore their ban and smoke anywhere they fancy. Of course they complained, it’s human nature to complain when a freedom is removed.

Yes, I'd love a ban! It's stressful trying to keep my toddler away from smokers & they are very selfish to expose children to their smoke. I'm always trying to cross the road to avoid them but it's not always possible e.g sometimes they suddenly appear from around a corner. I'd love a ban to protect children.

I agree ban it.

Surely the money in then goes out on health care/ NHS for all these smokers? The government need to sort this out. I'd happily sign a petition, plus I think glitter should be banned too, bad for sealife and get everywhere.

I don't really care if you smoke in your own house ( ideally not outside if you live next door to me though) but in my opinion it should be limited to that, if not banned all together.

Not acceptable to expose children to passive smoking yet wanting a ban on smoking in all outdoor public areas would surely force people to smoke inside their own homes (around the rest of the family)? A lot of people don't have gardens.

Smokers should be encouraged to smoke outside not banned from doing so.

@ChocolateCherrybomb I think you just made that up.

Yes it’s rank. I hate it, always have. My mother smokes, never in the house but outside and even outside it drags the smell back in with you. Blech