Shout Out to All Outside the UK! What do you think of Brexit?

[KenDodd]

Ideally outside of the EU as well as it's the global opinion I was really after.
The government and printed press here portray us as a world leader and that Brexit has enhanced our reputation and the rest of the world can't wait for the exciting opportunities for partnerships and increased trade with the UK. I'm not so sure that's what the rest of the world thinks so thought I'd do a very unscientific straw poll.

Yabu - The rest of the world thinks Brexit is a bad idea, it has diminished our reputation and is portrayed this way in the press.
Yanbu - The rest of the world thinks Brexit is a great idea, it has improved our international reputation and is portrayed this way in the press.

Thanks!

Irish also, but spend time in France every year.

My friends there far less occupied by the Brexit issue than I am but then they don’t have to worry about a Border and the peace process in the North.
Most of them were very about it, think it’s completely ridiculous but mostly, they’ve moved on.

@AndThenTheDayBecomesTheNight

British, but lived outside Britain half my life.

It's like watching a beloved relative go on a course of complete and utter self-destruction, while half their nuclear family and all their wider family and friends plead with them in vain to realise what they're doing and stop.

For most Irish people, this is the case, but with the added complication that the relative's self-destruction is also having a huge negative impact on a close family member's life.

Saying: 'I told you so' just gets them riled up, Remember and they find it patronising, because whether we agree or not they voted the way they did for a reason. Just, unfortunately, the majority of those reasons were not the fault of the EU, but caused by governments of all colours.
A few years ago, I was in Stoke on Trent doing some work (Arts and culture stuff, so Brexit has fucked me over good and proper!) and I have to say it is an absolute dump! The people are amazing and so friendly and community minded, but the area has just been forgotten about and a whole beautiful industry and talented workforce thrown on the heap. There is very little public facing EU stuff, so I can sort of see why they think the EU has not benefitted them. The industries have gone and they don't have the money to enjoy FOM or the education needed for the jobs available. Now, as I say not an EU issue, but those kind of areas wanted to be heard and I think stuff it to us 'posh southerners' who didn't care about them and to the cities like Manchester and Liverpool in the North, who seem to get all of the development. From a more detached view, we know that the local councils play the main part in this, but many of their members are worn down and don't know how to move the cities like Stoke forward.

Whereas I, who was born to a middle-class London family, who went skiing etc. every year in Europe and did Art History at University, so have only seen and known benefits to EU membership, which has movitated me to learn about the overall benefits and structures of the EU

Well I think it is sad that people think it is comparable to Scottish independence or Irish Independence since both Scotland and Ireland were brought into the UK by violent means whereas the EU is a coming together of equals (yes some are more powerful but they all get a seat at the table).

As a teen I was enthralled by the opportunity to study and live in Europe and the EU afforded me the opportunity (Erasmus) and I am so grateful for that. I worked in a multinational and I remember how great it was to just have one currency when I went over to some European country for work or leisure - and smaller checks at the passport control.

Yes, there are downsides, but is it not better to work inside the tent to change it than to work outside?

Anyway, you are sadly leaving now and those of us in Ireland with close family ties to the UK will be deeply saddened and as trust said, also scared of the unforeseen consequences for ourselves.

But at the same time we do not want you to get a good trade deal now since the rhetoric has been so xenophobic that we are all hurt.

Annasgirl, the Scottish weren't brought into the UK by violence, why do you believe that?

The act of Union happened, admittedly not particularly enthusiastically after the financial ruin caused by the Darien scheme ( a plan to form a Scottish colony in Panama}

I have family and friends in the States.

Some haven't got a clue about Brexit, what it means, what will happen, etc. Let alone an opinion.

Some support Trump and can absolutely understand " why we wouldn't want to be under the EU's thumb", so to speak.

Some think it's ridiculous.

I can't say I know anyone non- European who feels strongly either way though. Americans I know mostly feel it's a European issue so not really their business. ( Not saying I agree with that.)

The friends I have in Peru and Chile really don't care at all, for them they are interested in the situation in South America and the US. I would think that that would be the case in a lot of the world. I read the Spanish press and Brexit is not actually covered in as much depth .as people in the UK might think-today Brexit isn't even the main story in the international section of El Pais and on the front page it's well below a story about monkeys , although Spanish friends do think we're making a big mistake

I have clients all around the world. None of them have said, "That's a great idea!"
Quite a few have asked if there is civil unrest. Many comments about how "mad" and "crazy" we are. Lots of jokes comparing us to America and their Trump presidency.

We are viewed as pretty much as dumb as Trump...

(Countries surveyed: Ireland, America, India, Brazil, Australia, Cyprus, France, Germany, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Italy, Greece, Portugal)

Irish here too and anyone I've talked to about Brexit thinks it's a stupid idea.
I lived in England for a few years and agree with a previous poster in that my experience of the average English persons knowledge of the EU wasn't great. Not only that but the lack of knowledge shown here on MN about NI when the DUP came into prominence.

Not only that but the lack of knowledge shown here on MN about NI when the DUP came into prominence.

That was mind-boggling, but I suppose at least had the effect of contextualising Karen Bradley having somehow managed to get to be NI secretary, or indeed an adult human being and MP, without understanding the difference between unionists and nationalists.

@Nore - the past few years have made me realise how little people in England know about Ireland (or care TBH). It is a pity as my DM grew up in London so we were always aware of the UK, its politics, its history, etc.

But I think we are exceptionally outward looking as a nation in Ireland and really, most other countries (I have lived in France and the US and spent time in Germany and S.Africa) do not have our links with and our interest in, other nations.

When I was in South Africa last year I spoke to a few people who were from both South Africa and other European countries and they all said they thought it was extremely stupid. No one of them could understand why anyone would want to leave and there was one man from Macedonia who said his country are still desperate to join. It’s quite embarrassing and I made sure they knew I did not vote for such stupidity.

@tyrannosaurustrip

This is absolutely spot on. I think in Ireland you are taught civil affairs in school? Civics? You are educated on the basic structure of Irish governance (Dail/Seanad) and the EU. My experience in UK is that this just doesn’t happen in the same way at all - it just isn’t broken down to a level that hits people where they understand. I studied a little bit of it in geography in the past but we don’t have the capacity within the curriculum to deliver this key, factual information to people. There are good sites out there that look at institutions in the UK - Parliament/Royal family, etc that give clear, factual information but there has never been a clear connection drawn at a local level (to my knowledge). I also remember a sense growing up that any attempt to connect was frowned upon - only certain people/immunities could gain access. There have always been organisations like the British Council but they were very hard to get work with and internships were very closely guarded. Another poster has said that they were middle class/London born/history of art graduate - not dissimilar to me and I remember a feeling of being not quite good enough to access opportunities. The competition growing up in London for that ‘space’ is phenomenal and very pressured - and working class communities were absolutely excluded from it. As were black communities, afaik - racism was a huge factor there. I am a remainer, European passport holder although born and raised in UK and tbh was not surprised with the result as tensions had been building for such a long time (and built in residual animosity and distrust towards European ideas and culture). I think it is way too simplistic to disregard groups of people who were economically the most vulnerable and the result was always going to be disastrous- the greatest irony being that at this stage in integration the money would have finally started to make itself felt at that level. But then I never believed that would be allowed to happen - when you grow up in those areas you can really see the politics at play and how mechanisms like education/resources, etc can be withheld/unevenly distributed/manipulated. And that happens because of and by, all groups - there is no ‘left’ who are better than ‘right’.

I’m in the UAE. I don’t really know what the locals think, but the fact that Arab leaders have been flying out to London for meetings and trade talks suggests they’re rubbing their hands with glee at the opportunities this brings (NB that’s opportunities for the Arab world, not the U.K. I guess they will be looking to exploit our new found vulnerability.)

@KenDodd

Brexit tarnishes all of us though.

I remember the proud glow I felt during the London Olympics. The fact I had absolutely nothing to be proud of because I hadn't done anything mattered not. Likewise with Brexit and the impression people overseas now have of the UK is nothing to do with me, I voted remain, I didn't bring this on.

I genuinely think if the Olympics had not been a success we'd not have Brexit. Before it the national mood was that it was going to be a farce, but in the event it was really good and Britain felt proud. Buoyed up by not fucking up a month-long sporting event that we'd been planning for seven years with a huge amount of international goodwill behind it, some of us got overconfident and decided that Britain was so great that we can tear up all our trade structures and related legal frameworks, piss off our main trading partners, give no clarity to the international community and become a successful first world economic power in our own right in about two years.

It's no coincidence that Boris grabbed Brexit as the way to build his post-Olympics brand.

British living in the Caribbean. It's like watching a slow motion car crash.

Canadian here, it all seems to be a lot of money, stress and consternation to end up slightly worse off.

@feesh

I’m in the UAE. I don’t really know what the locals think, but the fact that Arab leaders have been flying out to London for meetings and trade talks suggests they’re rubbing their hands with glee at the opportunities this brings (NB that’s opportunities for the Arab world, not the U.K. I guess they will be looking to exploit our new found vulnerability.)

Of course they are - misogyny being a pretty immediate effect of Brexit would draw them in like moths to a flame. Nothing like a premier with a proven track record of treating women like shit to held revert decades of hard won rights.

I believe my American friend's take was "At least Trump lost the popular vote."

With friends and family in other countries, they have mainly been astounded at the inflated level of self importance. Someone on another thread described it as narcissism on a national level, which I agree with.

This is absolutely spot on. I think in Ireland you are taught civil affairs in school? Civics? You are educated on the basic structure of Irish governance (Dail/Seanad) and the EU. My experience in UK is that this just doesn’t happen in the same way at all - it just isn’t broken down to a level that hits people where they understand. I studied a little bit of it in geography in the past but we don’t have the capacity within the curriculum to deliver this key, factual information to people.

I was required to do a European Studies GCSE at school, it was part of the core curriculum. We looked in detail at governance structures etc. My school was very unusual in requiring this, but perhaps we'd have had a different result if more schools actually taught this stuff?

I don't think I've ever met a Brexiteer who actually understands how the EU works, and there is scant evidence of those people existing on sites like this as well.

The Brexit debate was dominated by ignorance and assumptions, rather than actual understanding or reliable facts.

i'm live in england but DH lives in Germany for half the year.

His German friends/colleagues think we have taken leave of our senses and in particular don't get Boris. My uncle lives in the far east and its not really a news item in his country.

@AlexaShutUp

Exactly. I did ES in first year (mostly the Butter mountain!) which says a lot about my age🤣 but I don’t think it is covered in state schools so widely.

I really think so many things collided at once on some communities who had not been prepared beforehand. Globalisalisationbor one thing, and the disruption of the internet, a changing job market, an explosion in media/end of print sales and changing demographics in general meant that migration (which the media kept a focus on) meant many people no longer understood their own society and place in it and panicked. In some of those old Labour areas the tone had always been look after local jobs and suddenly the message changed. Years of trying to understand what wa going on at a local area confused a lot of people who I think were only just hanging in there. I also think the contempt for working class communities was visceral.
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My experience is that it's quite a mixed picture. I have actually heard quite a bit of anti EU sentiment from other Europeans, although our decision to leave has generally been seen as quite extreme.

I have German in-laws and my FIL is very suspicious of the EU and feels it's too big and doesn't listen to people.

Talking to some of my OHs German friends they said it could have gone the same way in Germany if they'd had a ref, with a lot of small towns and villages, eastern part of the country voting out. This insular xenophobic mentality is prevalent everywhere not just in the UK.

I and most people I know voted remain and think I the whole thing is a total shit show but I'm fed up of the Brexit bashing and think it's fine to laugh and call us stupid when a) half of us didn't vote for it b) The reasons people voted out varied and and not everyone who voted out was an uniformed idiot

Can't stand all the empire 2.0 and we won the war stuff thought it makes me cringe with embarrassment

German friends without exception are totally baffled.

French friends sort of pitying / smug.

Norwegian friend who I lost touch with 10 years ago messaged me with his condolences.

Americans I've spoken to are largely uninterested, either because they are pro-Trump and therefore pro-Boris, or because they're too busy being anti-Trump to care about our problems.

Lithuanian friend who is very clever, follows international politics closely, and is by my standards frighteningly rightwing, thinks it's a smart move but can't really tell me why.

The worst part is being pitied by an Ethopian though.

@Blibbyblobby agree with you the fucking Olympics has a lot to answer for! Before 2012 we were a lot more accepting of the fact that we're a has-been nation slowly slipping into international obscurity.