to wonder WTF Greenwich?

[Standandwait]

Okay: I'm a parent in London, but not in Greenwich -- and I do have some backup help. And I'm all for controlling CV. But still: Greenwich borough announces SUNDAY NIGHT that all schools will close and go back online from Monday evening. Does not a single person in charge of these decisions over there have both a job and a child????

YABU with the sarcastic voting of 'everyone should have a Norland Nanny like the Royals'. What would a parent do if, like our school, you get an isolation notice for your child because two kids in it have got a positive Covid test? My son's friend, in a different year in the school, got a call on Thursday evening to say don't come to school tomorrow X who is one of your class close contacts has Covid. No Norland Nanny there but his parents had to deal with it. Can't see the difference to be honest but the sarcasm doesn't help.

@CountessFrog

I’m in the north, in an area that was t3 before October half term. Our numbers were the same as the numbers in the worst parts of London (higher in fact).

Our schools never closed. Not a single one. Cases and contacts were isolated in high schools. Some primary school classes closed.

Why is it so different in Greenwich? Genuinely confused.

That’s up to whoever runs your local council. They could have done the same thing as Greenwich if they wanted. Greenwich haven’t been given the go ahead, they have done it in opposition to what the govt wanted. I know some people are desperate to make everything about London being given special treatment but that’s not the case here, it’s one council saying they are doing what they thinks best.

I'm in London btw and schools here, and in neighbouring Surrey, have been hit just as much as everywhere else I think - the slow build since September. I know of 3 local schools that were completely shut for deep clean last week - think they were doing remote learning. I think our government have been as slow and crap at dealing with schools as everything else - and yet teachers still not wearing masks!

I also have to question the whole strategy as, despite it raging like wildfire, I don't know a single person, child or family, who had been seriously ill. Children utterly unaffected, not even a temperature. Parents aweek or 2 of mild viral symptoms (with the spectre of long covid of course). But it makes me think we should have protected the vulnerable much better from the beginning and let it spread through school children, who would be pretty much done by now, esp as they wont be getting the vaccine. Please tell me teachers are being prioritised for the vaccine?

YABU. Unfortunately this isn’t something that can be planned and announced a few days to a week earlier.

We’re in the middle of a pandemic, not a normal situation, and so what’s going to happen childcare wise takes a huge back seat to the health, well-being and safety of everyone.

But there is a difference london

The difference is that one needs to happen and will impact on that year group.

The other doesn’t need to happen and impacts on everybody.

I have no objection to ‘please don’t send your child in if you have an alternative’ but for people for whom the alternative is time off work and lost pay then it is a nightmare.

*I know some people are desperate to make everything about London being given special treatment but that’s not the case here, it’s one council saying they are doing what they thinks best."

This!

Greenwich is just one small part of London. Hardly a London wide thing. It's simply in the news because they're ignoring government guidance and have decided it's best for schools to close.

YABU; if a bubble pops, it pops. My kids' high school has been sending out isolation emails a couple of hours before the school day begins. Most of the school is at home now because they've run out of staff. (When they had enough staff, they tried to keep things running and only send specific classes home.) Teachers have kids too; I can't imagine it's easy for anyone.

@mincefuckinpies - we've got 1200 people off in our school. Three year bubbles of almost 400 children each (each child got a day's notice not to come in obviously as there was two Covid positives), then four bus loads of kids also in isolation. We've had 15 Covid positives since September. So 1200 people off school for 15 people with Covid. Every parent had to make an overnight decision on childcare.

Four schools in our area - we're a tier 3 area - shut over the past two weeks. Two of them gave 48 hours notice because they got a surge in positives.

All those parents were also in a nightmare situation. BTW only 9 students turned up to one lesson on Friday. Their parents had taken the rest out of school. So where did they find the childcare? Most of these children are secondary school age, most of them are not SEN so most of them are safe to be left for a reasonable amount of time.

I also have to question the whole strategy as, despite it raging like wildfire, I don't know a single person, child or family, who had been seriously ill. Children utterly unaffected, not even a temperature. Parents aweek or 2 of mild viral symptoms (with the spectre of long covid of course)

The one person I know in Surrey affected by the rise in school cases has been ill. She was ill for 2 weeks, her husband a little less. The child who brought it home is 11, and had it for about 3 days. His younger brother had a slight cough. The youngest child who is about 2, had no symptoms at all.

Schools should not close unless they can't staff the school properly. Some schools have coped well, others not so well. It seems silly to me to close the ones which have had few cases although I guess there's a feeling of quitting while you're ahead. DS' 6th form college has had three cases all term and has moved online this week. I suspect that has more to do with teachers being worried about having to self-isolate over Christmas though.

@Babybornbabyborn

I hope the hospitals in Greenwich aren’t relying on parents of primary school children to staff them. It’s ridiculous giving such little notice. It really does feel like no one in government has ever had to worry about childcare.

Not an issue because Keyworker children, vulnerable and SEND can still go in. My DD’s Primary school in Greenwich has been working since 6am to contact all the necessary parents and arrange for them to come to school. Office staff have been wonderful there, the lot of them!

This decision should have been taken last week or the week before by the government.

Do you know for a fact that the exact data that motivated the decision was available one or two weeks earlier?

I feel really sorry for parents with school age kids. It's such an impossible situation.

Mine are nursery age so we're less affected, but I'd probably pull mine out of school next week if they were older (and god only knows - maybe get fired..!?).

Good luck everyone.

Yes London I hear you. It is awful. But. There are three year groups out? Is that primary? Because if so there are still four in.

My DD’s Primary school in Greenwich has been working since 6am to contact all the necessary parents and arrange for them to come to school.

What other working parents would give.

I don’t think it’s enough to say vulnerable children can come in. No one wants to be labelled a vulnerable child, do they?

What Rudbeckia said:

Secondary phone call: "Mum, someone in our class has tested positive. I need to be collected right now, we are not allowed to take the bus. Okay, you are about to deliver a lecture. I will wander around town with my mates for two hours potentially spreading Covid" Not a huge crisis because older kid can manage.

• But probably not the first time this has happened since Sept.

Primary: "Come collect your kids right now and keep them self-isolated for two weeks. They cannot even take a walk. All your curtain twitching neighbours know. You may not hire a babysitter during self-isolation. Best wishes" Working mother catastrophe.

• Plus: 2 days' online work will be streamed for you.

And add one nursery example:
"We're closing a week early in 5 days' time on 11th December. Sorry." (then the latter parts of 'Primary').

In the case of London boroughs at least, there are now mobile mass testing stations coming to senior schools. On the plus side, I would think this may free up some capacity for other testing centre types. Assuming people act responsibly on a result if it is positive (but this now affects the 'Christmas bubble' days so that's not going to be all that effective), it could help in this fortnight. Too late, probably, for most other areas though.

We're in Havering - we now have Covid tests for all children aged 11-18 and there families. My Year 11 DD has been off school for 4 out of the last 5 weeks isolating as her school has been closed to her year because of positive tests. She's not back until Jan where she'll have been in school for 1 of 7 weeks. 20 teachers are off with symptoms and isolating (which is awful). But Gavin Williamson insists she'll be fine to take her GCSEs in May because she's been in school for 9 out of the last 30 school weeks and all that time she'll be able to catch up because they've delayed the exams by 3 weeks - it'll be a breeze honestly . They need to close the schools now, put London in Tier 3 and cancel this ridiculous Christmas bubble thing now.

It’s newsworthy as it’s the first council to close schools unilaterally going against the government. Now they’ve set precedent, others will follow. I expect all of the councils in the East to follow Greenwich.

Unfortunately it would be the sensible thing to do would be to have all high schools onto remote learning for the last week of school as the government have admitted that is one of the major infection area's. They won't actually do anything as they want an excuse come January when all area's rates are sky rocketing rather actually being proactive in the front of the infection rates now. And they can blame the general public for not 'following' the rules.

YABU and YANBU
YABU It's a crisis
YANBU I don't know WTF working parents are meant to do
YANBU it would have been better if the govt. had supported schools to put in some better structures and investment to make it possible for schools to operate safely. They are fuckwits and clearly care not a jot for our children's futures.

If I was you I would make child care plans for January telling you in advance hope that enough time

Yes. Public Health England was keeping a very close eye on what happened in the US after Thanksgiving and it looks like there is a very clear answer.

What people do over the next weeks directly influences January and that's without other major events that co-occur.

There's a huge divide between high and low covid areas. My two are in primary and they had an uninterrupted term. (Fingers crossed it'll last till end of this week). There had been no bubbles sent home at all. We are in tier 2 but local area actually has case rates of under 50 per 100,000. But the larger urban centres around us aren't doing that well with cases rising, and the county level is a lot higher. I know from here it's unusual in the country.

I do feel there's a big gap in education opportunity for the children involved.

DC's Greenwich borough private school have just confirmed to us that the Junior school will remain open, as they are not obliged to follow LA guidance. They have very few cases in the Junior's, so I'm relieved.

It is outrageous...working parents are put in a hideous position...many cannot simply drop everything and work from home. The Government is insisting that schools are staying open and this is going against this. I struggle to believe we are in a situation where children's educations are seemingly expendable and parents have to make an unexpected choice between looking after their children (and attempting to educate them)and work. .

Key workers are a certain category of people. I work full time. So does my husband We are not key workers as defined. However we are both pretty key to our respective organizations and our wages are to our household's finances. What would we do? Simply abandon our kids?

And who on earth is going to say my child is vulnerable, lets send them in. It doesn't work like that!!!