to wonder WTF Greenwich?

[Standandwait]

Okay: I'm a parent in London, but not in Greenwich -- and I do have some backup help. And I'm all for controlling CV. But still: Greenwich borough announces SUNDAY NIGHT that all schools will close and go back online from Monday evening. Does not a single person in charge of these decisions over there have both a job and a child????

But if schools - including primary schools - are going to be closed at the levels current in Greenwich, then schools in many parts of the UK will be closed most of the time till April. Thats the reality. We know from the last lockdown that longterm school closure is absolutely disastrous - unsurprisingly - for disadvantaged / vulnerable kids & families. So we're all agreeing to that collateral damage when we get on the close the schools bandwagon.

Also London is almost certainly going into Tier 3 within a few days anyway, so shrug

@nosswith

The decision should have been made by central government at the latest at the time that the five day window was announced.

A government who had the second period of restrictions at least a month later than it should have been, and cannot even be on time for a press conference they call.

All that having a lockdown a month earlier would achieve is that we'd now be in Lockdown 3, with an even more fatigued population. Wales did the circuit breaker in November thing and they are now a fucking mess.

Thread here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4105744-Greenwich-schools-closing-tomorrow?msgid=102601216#102601216

Announcing stuff late on a weekend evening is par for the course for all level of government , so I think it's no more wrong for a council to do this than anyone else.

This has forced the hand of DofE, who are going to have to either countermand (with reasons) the decision made by the council based on PHE evidence (local area case number doublling each day - there will be new transmissions in schools in areas with rates like that between now and 17/18.

10 days isolation knocks out some/all of the Christmas bubble time. And is likely to be considerably more hostile to family and working life than 3 days off this week (and unlike illness/SI there is a day's notice)

So will DofE act? They'll have to, given that (finally) the situation in schools is on the front page. The Mayor got in quickly, siding with local control of school opening, but trying to wrangle it back to being a whole-London policy, not individual boroughs

Thus is going to be a very interesting one to watch in terms of how the politicking plays out. Boris, as former London Mayor, does have some quite decided opinions. But is anyone going to back DofE over Health?

Our “best” isolation was the 10pm Sunday night one. Some kids turned up at school on Monday as their parents hadn’t seen the messages so they had to call the parents to come and get them.

I’m genuinely concerned that some children are going to be left alone due to parents having no other option, but I get pounced on for this

That's because it's not terribly logical to be concerned only in one set of circumstances which can prevent attendance at school. And at least, unlike illness, SI or utilities failure there was a day's notice

Yes, I know some schools are having to close because of bubbles bursting but there is a difference between one year group being out and a whole school shutting

Not from the POV of the family - it's the fact of the closure, not the reason which matters

A better solution to me would be ‘we will open but if you can have your child stay home, please, please do.’

You have realised that Greenwich schools are staying open for families of key workers and those who are socially vulnerable? Isn't that even better still?

I think we shall see this more in the south in January and February

Most of ds year was off last week why not just keep the whole year off (broke up on Friday)

Schools need to be made safer masks should be worn

Maybe the year needs to be repeated again as there is so much disruption

Rose, you have completely misunderstood me.

Imagine one year group being sent home. 70 children, maybe?

Now the whole school is closed. 500 children, perhaps?

Which has the higher likelihood of a child coming to harm?

@mincefuckinpies

Rose, you have completely misunderstood me.

Imagine one year group being sent home. 70 children, maybe?

Now the whole school is closed. 500 children, perhaps?

Which has the higher likelihood of a child coming to harm?

Then multiply with what Khan wants. All London schools closed. Nothing on radio yet though. Just focusing on Greenwich and not headline news item.

I don't misunderstand

I'm just looking at it from the other way up. And pointing out that key worker and socially vulnerable DC stay in school

bubble bursts - all 70 DC get sent home whatever their circumstances
school closes - socially vulnerable DC can stay in school

On now. DfE still expects them open. Not much said.

It is short notice but it sounds like it’s needed. London’s growth of the virus is happening in most areas now and once it’s high it happens quickly and often through schools no matter what the government say. We’ve seen it in the north.

Been happening for months in the North, councils haven’t closed schools tho in most cases even tho in some cases like my siblings where they were struggling for safe staff levels at one point. This is a primary school too. Absolutely spreads in all schools.

Welcome the south to What the government have been ignoring in the north for months! Also I’ll add Just because there isn’t a confirmed case in your school, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. Children’s symptoms can differ if they have any at all, it’s when the teachers/school staff catch it it’s aready spreading.

The problem with the socially vulnerable line is that in primary schools in particular kids and parents often know what others do for a living.

But anyway this is by the by. I just think it is dreadful to pull the rug under people like this and it cannot be compared to a bubble bursting. There is a difference between an emergency situation and planned and deliberate inconvenience.

I hope the hospitals in Greenwich aren’t relying on parents of primary school children to staff them. It’s ridiculous giving such little notice. It really does feel like no one in government has ever had to worry about childcare.

YABMU – it's not the schools who've decided this, it's the council that runs them. I also imagine, given the growing rate of infection, that the parents have been primed for this, because it sounds as though many of the schools in Greenwich are half empty anyway with year groups isolating. I'm in north London and it's the case here and I hope our council does the same, because mixing all these infected kids with extended family during the Govt's stupid three-household rule at Christmas means it's going to be carnage in January.

@Babybornbabyborn

I hope the hospitals in Greenwich aren’t relying on parents of primary school children to staff them. It’s ridiculous giving such little notice. It really does feel like no one in government has ever had to worry about childcare.

I think the schools will still be open for children of key workers so hospital staff shouldn’t have a problem.

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

My children have both had an entire uninterrupted term at school. Sounds like this is unusual.

My DS has (fingers crossed, 5 days to go). DD had one week of school at home (second week was half term). At the time our rates were very high - we were in the old tier 3. Now our rates are well below England average and we're still in Tier 3. Annoying but I suppose we've got a good chance of making it through to Christmas.

It’s also about what happens next. If LAs can do this then can they next year too? And in high rising / case areas are people ok to go back to March style lockdown?

Closed to all bar kw etc

It's a shit show. Six self isolations for my teenage child in West Midlands and Covid. A month out of school for my other teen.

The Covid took us all out for 2 weeks too. The ten weeks of confinement for my son is devastating for him.

We work from home, we have teens. We get little notice of isolations. If we were not home based or had younger DC we'd be fucked.

@Standandwait

Okay, I feel better already. But I also agree with some of the OPs -- these decisions need to be made earlier so people can plan.

Which is just what pubs and restaurants and indeed shops have been saying. I know some of this stuff is unpredictable but it is specifically the role of government to smooth out the bumps, not make them bigger

How can these decisions be made earlier? what a ridiculous notion. The nature of contagion or infection is its rapid speed.

I live in North London and half the schools are already closed. Why don't you know this stuff?

It depends. I think keeping schools open even as pubs and restaurants and so on (in tier 3 areas) remain closed was the hill the government were prepared to sacrifice themselves on. But if this is pushed through I think that will go. It’s not looking brilliant, tbh.

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

My children have both had an entire uninterrupted term at school. Sounds like this is unusual.

Yes, unbelievably rare. Most kids in my dd's school have had a minimum of 2 blocks of 14 days of isolation, some three blocks and some more. She's in a big state school in North London. Her experience is entirely typical. The other issue is with entire teaching depts being in isolation for the same reasons - so the schools being without an English dept, a maths dept etc.

Plus what’s stopping LAs doing longer periods? A term. Even if you’ve had SI interruptions the result would be less in school time, ie for many it would be none.

my local hospital have told staff members to stay at home if they have symptoms, including other new symptoms. most adamant, very clear about this.

I know of a few schools in the SE (Kent & London) which have had to close due to lack of staff.

It’s a domino effect as teachers are having to self isolate as their child’s bubble at another school has closed.

It’s a shit situation all round, didn’t Scotland or Wales announce in Sept that GCSE/Highers would be coursework based instead?

@MarshaBradyo

Plus what’s stopping LAs doing longer periods? A term. Even if you’ve had SI interruptions the result would be less in school time, ie for many it would be none.

If they do it'll be because the infection has spread even wider and too many teachers are sick and children are off self-isolating. They won't do it for the hell of it.