To ask you to reassure me that my own secondary school experience is not the norm for most children?

[crazyrabbit]

I am feeling quite anxious about sending my child to school. My own experience was horrible and I really want better for my dc. I have been considering private, but with little experience of the private sector, I am not sure if this will resolve some of my worries or not. The available state schools around us are very average. I don't know if my own experience is perhaps clouding my judgement.

My own secondary school was in an area with a high level of deprivation. Quite a few of the children had emotional and behavioural difficulties, and this would effect the quality of teaching and the environment. The teachers would spend more time managing challenging behaviour and less time teaching. Bullying was common and it feels like it was often ignored, I also witnessed a few assaults. Looking back I feel there was an element of misogyny as there was a group of three boys in YR 7 & 8 who would target the girls; they would frequently hit, shove, slap, etc and I actually witnessed one of them force his hands down a YR 7 girl's trousers.

Some of the teachers were excellent, some were disinterested, but even the excellent teachers had their teaching dampened by challenging behaviours and an environment that did not support learning. There was no pushing the children to achieve their full potential, if you managed a C grade you were not encouraged to improve and you were instead left to get on with it, as other children needed the help more. Music, art and sport were unrepresented in the curriculum. I think when I left that school just under 20% of the children were achieving the 5 basic GCSE's. The school has since been transformed into an academy.

Because secondary school only fucks you up for seven years. Not being able to afford a house fucks you up for life, and your children too.

We moved out of the inner city when my children were babies. They went to a lovely village primary. They aren't at the secondary I originally thought they would go to, but it has a reputation for being supportive and kind. The academic results aren't the best but my children are doing their best.
You need to research schools.
Moving house is a lot cheaper than private schooling.
My sister attended a top girls grammar school, and was excluded and bullied throughout.
Me and my brother were probably better off at the low achieving comprehensive.
My brother went on to get a physics PhD. Able kids can do well in normal schools, but I think the ethos of the school is important.

In very general terms, I think schools are much better than yesteryear in terms of pupil voice, awareness of bullying and openness in discussing these things. My experience of school sounds rather like yours OP- lots of bullying, really unpleasant disruptive behaviour and it was a battle to achieve. Being hard working made you into a target for bullies. This was in the 1970s and most people in my school didn’t even get to take O levels.... As a teacher myself, I look at the schools I’ve taught in (fairly average comps) and I believe overall there is a much better ethos of learning. Pupils are almost invariably put into teaching sets now so teaching can be targeted to an appropriate level more easily. Inclusion has meant access has widened hugely. Learning differences like dyslexia etc are recognised... I don’t remember a single mention of any kind of ‘SEN’ when I was at school. If you struggled with something it was your own fault for not trying hard enough. No one would have dreamt of going to a teacher if they were being bullied- it was a culture of staying silent. Nowadays Is the opposite ... counsellors in school and pupils being encouraged to open up about how they feel and what they are experiencing.

So I honestly think in general terms things have improved. Having said that, there’s no denying if your own goes to a school which isn’t good, then it’s really tough. I think I’d move heaven and earth to find an alternative because honestly not all state schools are like that . I wouldn’t go private - I think that can be worse in terms of underhand bullying and teaching isn’t necessarily great. Unless it’s a really excellent forward thinking school, many private schools are way behind the times when it comes to addressing issues like bullying. Plus I’ve seen some real mediocrity in teaching... when people think about private they often assume it’s a grand high profile place but there are loads of small private schools which really won’t necessarily be a more positive or enriching experience. I wouldn’t home school either, I would be looking for a better state option.

Mine go to a comprehensive. It's a good one. Eldest is sixth form now but neither have experienced bullying or seen it. Both have a lovely bunch of friends. Eldest got really good GCSE results. There are good range of sports and clubs. The pandemic has spoiled things but that isn't the school's fault. It's well run and dds are happy and doing well

I went to a small private school back in the 80's/90's and never get this whole "you'll suffer if you're not one of the rich kids" - bar the obvious few (one was dropped off by a chauffeur in a huge Rolls and another was in the junior GB dressage squad) I honestly don't remember having an opinion on people's background and certainly didn't see any bullying on this. Some went on the foreign trips but others didn't some had ponies but most didn't - I had a great time at school and based on my experience would opt for private if finances allowed.

Well we can't afford private so my 11, 13 & 15) are three different types of state secondary: one at a grammar (11+ pass) , one at faith school (lucky place!) and one at an academy. By far the strictest and most on top of bullying and strongest pastoral care is the faith school. DC at this school is bright but easily led and incredibly lazy and they been fantastic at keeping him on the straight and narrow and offer the tools to help him academically (not that he uses them but that's another thread entirely ).

The education at the grammar is better in that they (understandably) have quite high expectations for the kids and do push them to work hard but there always seems to be scraps and lots of low level bullying plus fair bit of entitlement in some of the kids I've met although lots came from prep school so perhaps that inevitable but it's not something I've been impressed with.
The academy, I'm still undecided as it's only been a few rather odd months - there seem to be more issues and bullying but youngest is most resilient and so far seems to have a good crowd of friends. Amazing facilities and sport plus great open door policy with head of year/form tutor and they are definitely changing for the better (lots of new strict uniform rules, attendance expectations, sanctions for even minor behaviour misdemeanours etc) but I wonder if we are few years too early IYKWIM. We are in a generally affluent area but the academy catchment is definitely the more deprived area and FSM figures are significantly higher than faith/grammar school so there are more social issues to consider plus whilst poor attendance/behaviour etc is being stamped out now, this isn't the older year groups norm and could influence down the school.

@DonkeyMcFluff

Because secondary school only fucks you up for seven years. Not being able to afford a house fucks you up for life, and your children too.

I dunno. Lots of posters have described their secondary school experience as traumatic. Trauma doesn’t just resolve itself, it can effect you for life.

If your children are academic is grammar school an option? It would stretch them academically, there’d be good expectations and the behavioural issues might be not as prevelant.

I never thought I’d do it, but my DS seems quite bright (though still too young to tell really) and I’m mulling it over as we consider where to move to in future.

My DH and I both went to comps in the late 90s/early 00’s. We both went to uni- DH went to Oxbridge and is now in a top profession. Provided you read the Ofsted reports, pick a school in a relatively nice catchment area (is moving house an option?) and find out if the school has good facilities/ anti bullying policies etc you should be fine.

My DMIL and DBIL both teach at secondary comps. They’re excellent teachers. Standards are far, far higher and expectations generally better than 20 years ago, across the board.

Don’t cripple yourself paying for private school if you really can’t afford it. Look in to grammars, and visit the comps, check out the websites, talk to parents with kids at local schools- your research will help you, and it’ll probably be fine.

My dad and now dad generally have had a good time at secondary. Most kids want to do well and when they have a few issues the school has been supportive. Behaviour is good and most kids want to do well. Results good.
But it's a faith school and people actively chose it and travel to it. Not sure that makes any difference.

Dd and Ds!

Because secondary school only fucks you up for seven years. Not being able to afford a house fucks you up for life, and your children too

If only. The misery I suffered at secondary school has fucked me up for a lot longer than 7 years.

We sent ours private, a lot of which was based on my own negative experiences of a terrible comp. As others have mentioned above, private schools now tend to deal swiftly and decisively with bullies - they’re businesses, and would rather get rid of those causing problems than have lots of families move their children out of the school. The fees are a stretch, but that’s the same for a lot of the pupils there, we’re definitely not the exception - I felt there was a lot more ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ at the state school they went to.

I went to an all girls state school with an outstanding ofsted report pretty much every year, it was fantastic and not at all like what you'd experienced. My experience makes me quite anti private schools as I got better grades than the people I knew at private schools nearby. Don't be put off state schools, just find the right one. I have two family members who ended up bankrupt and borrowing from other members of the family (who sent their kids to state schools ironically) because they couldn't keep up with the fees

To be fair my old school did get very good results it's just the environment was toxic. Most of us had parents that encouraged us to do well. I think the kind of parents someone has will have more of an effect than the teachers they have. A bright child can do well in a bad school but they are more at risk of being bullied there.

My ds is in year 8, and his school seems very good and he seems to be happy there. He has some nice friends. They seem to be very good with the pastoral side of things. It's not perfect, but not awful.

I went to secondary school 96 - 01. During the first years there, we had an amazing head teacher, and we were the best secondary school in the area. She left to help bring other struggling schools up to standard, and we got a new head teacher. Things went down hill fast, and he was awful. Teachers left, and we were left with substitutes who didn't care and in some cases were perverts.

Good luck finding a good school

I don't know how old your child is but it may be taken out of your hands. My parents offered to pay for private education for my son but he wouldn't go. He wanted to go to the very good comp with his primary friends. We couldn't convince him.
He's actually doing very well there but sometimes I just wish he had teachers all as good as his best ones.

“don’t be put off State schools just find the right one”
Yes because that’s really easy

It's also really hard to get a feel of what a school is like until you're really there.

Sadly I don't think that going private necessarily means a better experience. It really depends on the area and the specific schools and that is something that you will just have to research and make a decision on. Some areas have excellent comprehensives and some areas have very poor private schools.

I went to a grammar school that was free but required you to pass the 11+ exam. Overall I had a good experience but there were still bullies. You just can't guarantee they will be happy whatever you do, it's a gamble, as are a lot of things in life.

It’s not perfect but we are happy with our all girl state. It has good results ours are happy achieving and have nice friends which for teens is as good as it gets (touch wood).

I’d anything it is over strict but think that’s better. You are liable if you witness bullying and don’t report it. When I asked dd1 about disruption in class that I remember from my mixed rural comp she looked blank. They set ruthlessly which benefits the brighter ones

@IrisAnon

Bullying happens everywhere, but if you’re at a decent private school, they take action very quickly and will expel offenders. It’s one of the reasons I now have both at private - neither were ‘bullied’ further than a few usual minor incidents and in both cases I couldn’t fault the response of the schools after my emails. Quick and effective. Very different to our state experience. I sympathise OP as my old school sounded similar to yours.

In my experience private schools do not expel bullies if their parents are School governors

Private education is spectacularly expensive. If I could possibly have managed it with the help of bursaries or scholarships, I was conscious that my children would be much worse off than the others around them, and doubly worse off because of the huge financial sacrifice we had made to send them there too, giving them the double disadvantage of being looked down on and being so short of money as to be unable to have even the simplest holiday. It just wasn't an option.

If it's a struggle but an option for you, a much better option would be to find the money to move into the area of the best state secondary school you possibly can (doing a lot of research first). I wasn't disappointed with ours.

BTW if your child is a girl (don't think there was any indication), all-girl state schools are often preferable to co-ed IME. Unfortunately I don't have the same feeling about all-boy state schools.

Do you lot think bullies are only produced by the proletariats?

I think it's important to speak to parents and kids who are already at the school to get an idea of how bullying is dealt with, regardless of school type. You can't generalise that Comp = bullying allowed.
Private/selective = bullying not allowed.
I've seen posts about a couple of private schools in my county where people have said they've had to remove kids due to bullying not being dealt with properly. Someone posted a couple of days ago to say their niece had been removed from my old grammar school due to bullying. I feel that my children's comp is very hot on bullying so it hasn't been a problem. You need to research the particular school and how they deal with it as bright kids with money can bully too.

I think some children are round pegs in square holes. DS, MIL and DH were. DD and I were square pegs. MIL spent her life teaching and still looks back on her school days as the best in her life. MIL DS and DH were all sporty and DS in particular is alpha and was always part of the "cool" crowd. DH and DS are both however fundamentally nice, kind people. MIL who stayed in education has a very unkind streak and I can see her absolutely thriving in a school environment. Lots of slightly sly comments from which she emerges personally smelling of roses. I think many teachers don't comprehend the sensitivities of the square pegs and the environment becomes self perpetuating.

Schools have got far too big and I don't think big comps are necessarily the answer for all dc. They all have to fit in and sometimes those who are neuro diverse or naturally individuals rather than part of the herd simply can't. That's where I think going to an independent school counts - it buys choice.

DD's supposedly excellent girls cofe was a snake pit but largely due to very poor leadership. She was much happier when we moved her and we were lucky we could.

There seems always to be a cohort about whom teachers make excuses or who are like MIL but fit so well into a school environment go off the radar in the context of the unhappiness they cause.he honey caus