To wish we can offload about stuff without the inevitable whataboutery

[CandidaAlbicans2]

I'm so fed up of threads being hijacked by "but XYZ is just as bad" rather than addressing the issue, eg

"I'm so sick of the Tory government doing XYZ"
"But Labour..."

"I'm sick of my neighbour's cats shitting in my vegetable patch"
"But dogs rip children's faces off"

"I'm sick of the sheer amount of male on female domestic abuse, sexism/inappropriate comments..."
"Not all men are like that", "women do those things too"

"Fed up of lorries taking ages overtaking each other on motorways, effectively turning them into dual carriageways"
"But car drivers..."

I can't remember a single discussion anywhere where at least one person didn't do the whataboutery. It's so tiresome, and can be really insensitive when posters are obviously so fed up about something and just need to be heard such as the topic is about M on F abuse.

YANBU at all. I'll add: "Teaching is a nightmare atm because of Covid". Cue: "Other people/professions have it just as bad/worse- stop moaning or quit your job!".

Whatabout non-whataboutery though! It can be just as bad

(Sorry OP)

People use comparison (hate the phrase 'whataboutery', too often used as an excuse not to engage with what has been said) to try and help you put your problems into perspective. Ask yourself what you seek to gain from offloading and what you want your audience to do. I'm guessing you just want sympathy and for people not to offer solutions or to get you to find some perspective. Self validation in other words. However, it is disrespectful to your audience to expect them only to sympathise and validate your current response in your situation. In some circumstances it might be appropriate for you to find some perspective or a solution. Ask yourself whether you really need an audience for self validation.

It is part of discussion to look at things from every perspective though isn't it? Else every thread would just be a long list of people agreeing with each other.

Agree totally op.
You can't even say you think supermarkets should close on Boxing day without someone posting well what about my mother, she is a doctor and on call Boxing Day. It's hardly comparable is it?

I agree, there’s a difference between offering an alternate perspective and being deliberately contrary but not everyone seems to grasp that.

However, it is disrespectful to your audience to expect them only to sympathise and validate your current response in your situation.

What a load of shite. That only holds true if the audience member wants the validation of rescuing people and is incapable of offering human compassion as a simple act of humanity without reward.

Humans are a social species. It is a human need to be heard and to receive attention and compassion from other humans rather than relying solely on oneself.

@Sparklesocks

I agree, there’s a difference between offering an alternate perspective and being deliberately contrary but not everyone seems to grasp that.

Agree with this.

being deliberately contrary

How could anyone know this for sure? Surely only the person making the comment knows their motivations for saying whatever it is they said. The only way to tell would be to monitor a posters whole posting profile to see whether there is a particular pattern. However who could be bothered with that? Surely, you either find you agree or disagree with them? If you are certain your own view is correct it shouldn't really bother you. Regardless, perhaps the reflection on it is beneficial.

@namochangoro I agree it’s not always possible to tell, but sometimes it’s incredibly blatant - normally by how ridiculous the comparison they give is.

Probably wouldn't happen as much if most of these posts didn't start by making outrageous generalisations about certain groups of people. Often written in an accusatory fashion which gets people's backs up.

I often find the word missing from a lot of posts is 'some'.

Lot of the situations dont actually call for a comparison though. Thats the issue.

What a load of shite. That only holds true if the audience member wants the validation of rescuing people and is incapable of offering human compassion as a simple act of humanity without reward.

Really? It is acceptable to expect an audience to hold your chosen viewpoint? What if they disagree? What if you really have lost all perspective? The definition of true compassionate empathy is to be able to help a person find perspective and solutions to their problems. Otherwise you are just engaging in emotional empathy and are likely to be dragged down with the person complaining.

@Sparklesocks

I agree, there’s a difference between offering an alternate perspective and being deliberately contrary but not everyone seems to grasp that.

This is a good description. I also hate the whole race to the bottom thing that happens so often on this site. Sometimes it almost seems pointless to post anything trivial as you know within 20 replies someone will have lectured you and patronisingly asked if that's all you have to worry about.

Some people definitely have a tendency to turn any thread into their own personal Four Yorkshiremen sketch.

First poster: "I've missed a special holiday we've been saving for since forever cos Covid and I'm a bit sad"
Four Yorkshireman person: "Well I haven't had a holiday since we spent two nights in a dilapidated caravan in Grimsby in December 1973!"
Other Four Yorkshiremen person: "Two nights! In delightful Grimsby! As recently as 1972! You were lucky....."

It comes mainly from sad as fuck go-online shit stirrers.

They tend to have to hide their whataboutery shit stirring pratishness more offline/in person.

They tend to have to hide their whataboutery shit stirring pratishness more offline/in person.

Equally, people realise how unacceptable it is, in real life, to engage in emotionally dumping every little complaint, dislike and problem they have on everyone else. People soon tire of carrying every piece of someone else's emotional baggage....

It depends on the thread. If it’s a discussion type thread, then comparisons are appropriate to give some balance to a subject.

But if the OP is looking to provide women with the opportunity to share their experiences of male violence, then it’s completely inappropriate to say ‘women can be abusers, too,’ and it’s clearly purely an attempt to shut down women’s voices through ‘whataboutery’.

Quite clearly there are cases of men suffering domestic abuse, but there’s no doubt that there are far more female victims. (You don’t get 2 men a week being murdered in domestic abuse incidents.)

Plus, men don’t suffer harassment when out in public in the way that women do, on public transport or in the street.

The Whataboutery crew who dump on MN tend mostly to be Racists and Sexists.

So not needed online - or offline.

depends how it goes exactly.

"sick of tories/labour" fine, but what would the alternative be?
it's a valid point to say that you are not 100% behind but you still think the alternative would have been worst and there was no choice than tories/labour.

Lorries overtaking: again, fair enough, but it's not irrelevant to mention the middle lane car drivers (that are part of the problem!)

Sick of domestic violence is one thing, but when posters start saying they hate all men, men should be eradicated and the world would be a better place if it was female only, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with that.

Having an opinion is not hijacking a thread. You are free to ignore the sideway comments, but if you want a thread exclusively of people agreeing with you, you are in the wrong forum.

And YABU really is not the place to expect unanimous views!

Some people definitely have a tendency to turn any thread into their own personal Four Yorkshiremen sketch.

in fairness, there's such a tendency for reverse snobbery and competitive misery from some posters, it's quite funny when that happens.

What do you want people to do, Ofcourse people are allowed different oppinions and if you express them on a forum people will say if they disagree, it,s not whataboutary its perhaps pointing out flaws in an point of view, helping poeple to rationalise, helping make sence of things. Putting things in pespective.

Agreed
Apparently buying nice wrapping paper is an affront to starving Africans.
(I wonder if that poster is my Mum reminding me of the starving babies when I refused to eat my sprouts)
It's really rather pathetic.

@june2007

What do you want people to do, Ofcourse people are allowed different oppinions and if you express them on a forum people will say if they disagree, it,s not whataboutary its perhaps pointing out flaws in an point of view, helping poeple to rationalise, helping make sence of things. Putting things in pespective.

No Giving the opposite point of view in an intelligent debate is one thing. Monty Python memories of being shoeless and homeless is another. The whatabouters don't have the intelligence to form a counter argument.

Monty Python memories of being shoeless and homeless is another.
The whatabouters don't have the intelligence to form a counter argumen

who are you to pretend that posters are not allowed to bring their personal experience in the discussion?

The starving children comment on a wrapping paper thread is funny, because it has nothing to do with anything

A counter argument based on their personal experience is perfectly valid. Most arguments are based on the poster's experience! At least it's honest.