AIBU not to pay for this?

[GlassLass]

Some time ago my H and I decided to extend the house. A friend of a friend of a friend recommend a 'cheap architect '. when he visited we just chatted about what we want and asked to send us any info we got. So we sent a plan of house and a plot from title deeds (important to mention that there's a visibility splay which we are not allowed to build on) and screenshot of a zoopla page with an old advert of our house where some indicative sizes and floor plans were shown and said that we don't have exact measurements. Later an A sent us a draft with an extension which looked very wrong size wise. My H did the measurements and it appeared that A tried to fit those indicative sizes into indicative floor plans and the result was not our house at all. We messaged back , he came again re measured the external walls and asked us to do all internal measurements , which we did and sent him it as a digital plan(my H is in engineering, so can easily produce those). While waiting my H draw an extension plan himself and sent it over to an A. At that point A suggested to start getting quotes from builders. One of the companies looked at my H plan and noticed that it crosses the visibility line and most probably will be rejected by planning office. My H messaged A saying that plan needs to be redone (no more plans from A) and started playing with ideas of how to fit the max area extension within restrictions. A bit later my H came up which he thought a brilliant idea of an irregular shape extension. Again sent it over to A asking if that would work. A replied that he is going to start producing plans for an application.
A week after builders visited us to have a look at site and looked at our plan version 2 . They pointed out that it has several flaws and that its unlikely be accepted due to its shape . They also sent us a drawing with a proposed extension which was just perfect, simple and clever. At this point my H and I were very disappointed with our A and messaged him not to proceed any further with our extension. He got back to asking how better to invoice us?

I would like opinions if we should pay anything at all as we never seen any work done by him only first wrong dimensions plan. All other plans and measurements we done by us.
Thanks.

Did you have a contract?

No, nothing like that. @WhenISnappedAndFarted

Regardless of the fact that his work was crap, he did produce an initial plan, come out and measure and given feedback to your h. Did you not have a discussion about what you would pay him before he started work?

Wow you are so entitled! Of course you should pay him.

This is what confuses me. He produced the first draft not realising that sizing is wrong until we figured it out. There were not feedback from him, all the wrong things were picked up when building company were looking at our own drafts. It seems like either A didn't have time or not particularly good at what he is doing

So everything he did was wrong... how high is his bill exactly ? 🤔

I'd pay him something, he's spent his time doing it and it was a job not a favour. This is exactly why there should be a contract - it's to protect both parties and you know what to expect from each other.

Unfortunately as he has done work for you, regardless of whether you choose to use those plans or not, you will have to pay him.

Apologies I wasn't clear of the fact that everything that my H produced was in a digital format both 2d plans and 3d via which can be opened in most CAD software without any additional work or redrawing

Going against the grain, no I do not think you should pay. He sounds incompetent. If the hairdresser cut your hair completely wrong you wouldn't pay either.

And thank you for opinions! I appreciate that you read my rather long post

He still sent a draft, which he did so should be paid for.

But what did you agree contract wise with the architect? A fixed fee to do the plans or an hourly fee.

Surely you agreed in advance how much you would pay him?

Now there’s a second order question about whether his work is of the standard which should be expected.

Is there an architect trade body that you can complain to?

Ok, first thing is he did do work for you and it is normal to be expected to be paid for that.

It is also normal to ask someone how much up front, not after.

However if you feel his work was not at a good enough standard, then you can argue on quality.

I’d not expect him to say, oh great it’s done and not invoice you for his time.

I’d get his invoice then dispute it based on quality of the work delivered.

Just to be clear, you sent him 'indicative measurements' which he did the initial plan to, but these turned out to be very wrong?

He then came out to measure up, and produced a revised plan?

If so you need to pay him for the work done so far, prob a day and a half depending on how far he had to travel out to you.

@Dishwashersaurous there were 2 fees mentioned. First fee is to produce the plan and obtain planning permission, the second one is for building warrant application

You had an initial consultation with him. Although you say he just came round and chatted, that was a consultation and you pay for it.

His first extension plan was wrong because he was sent a screenshot of an old advert from Zoopla with indicative measurements. Why wouldn't you measure up properly? What was the point of sending that?

Your dh maybe thinks he knows better but his extension plan was unworkable. I just think you didn't work together with the architect, failed to provide him initially with correct measurements and a catalogue of arsing about afterwards.

Cut your losses and pay the architect. It's a lesson learned; a cheap architect will provide a basic service.

I hope you haven't chooses the "cheapest" builders you heard about from a friend of a friend of a friend.

So you need to pay him part of the first fee. He did a plan but didn’t do the planning application. What proportion of the first fee is he asking for?

Also, the initial error was yours entirely. You gave him inaccurate measurements

well, after some time in this i see that first draft in my area is produced as a 'free quote' to win the work. Also it is an architect work to do the survey measurements not ours.

As for my H he did produced his version of a perfect extension and our A never picked up that its not going to work or ever get approved.

I guess I'll ask for a bill and depending on a figure despute it based on the quality .

Thanks for the suggestions and comments

Also it sounds like you employed him to take a design to planning and then started getting your husband and builder to chip in, hence the confusion. If you are now sacking him off and going with the builders design who is doing the planning application and who will take design resposibility when it is built?

So he hasn’t even sent the bill yet and you are already quibbling. I’d assumed that you were debating the amount to pay but now I realise that you are thinking about not paying him anything at all

@LivingDeadGirlUK looking at it now I see that there was a lack of communication from both sides and long pauses on A side, hence my H started throwing his designs in. One of the companies we contacted for a building work quote also does the full cycle work.

Whilst I agree he's done work (albeit not what you needed or will use) and so it's on you for choosing badly. I think he's sussing out whether or not you think he should be paid by asking how best to invoice you. I mean you've been sending things back and forth for ages, he knows how to send his bill and is just testing the waters. I'd ignore and see what he sends through then pay it or negotiate it down.

In a lot of ways thats better as there is no one to blame if things go wrong!