Has Sadiq gone completely bonkers??

[GroundAlmonds]

How exactly does this make sense?

He wants non-Londoners (drivers) to pay a charge to enter Greater London, because...oh it’s complicated. I’ll link.

He does realise that Londoners drive out of London to wear out non-London roads too, though, right? It’s literally two way traffic.

I live in zone 2 and we have got rid of our car because we walk to work and can use public transport/hire a Zipcar or the like/get an Uber or the like.

Most of the cars on our road don’t seem to move from one week to the next. We need to cut down on car journeys and this is one way of encouraging people to look at whether they really need a car.

£3.50 a day won't do this. This is only going to produce more money!

Of course it won't do it entirely, but surely the fact we are discussing this in a thread is because it has made people think about whether they would be willing to pay it.

Worst mayor ever.

We live within the congestion zone and the charge has made a massive difference to the traffic near us. We don’t have a car, but there are always plenty of residents’ or visitors’ spaces in our street.

what's the difference with the congestion charge?

Let's face it, whatever you call it, charge, pollution tax or whatever, every city and bigger town will likely impose this very shortly. The end result will be the same, you pay.

There were even noises to tax you per mile you drive. Probably on top of what you already pay in various road "tax" (toll, congestion charge etc)

I was about to get all indignant about this, as 82 year old MIL, who I visit every 7-10 days, lives inside the Greater London boundary by about a quarter of a mile.

But I googled it, and the charge he's proposing is only £3.50 a day, so not enough of a disincentive to make me spend 3 hours each way on public transport and approx £40 in fares, when I can get in my car and do it in less than half the time and for around £10-12 in fuel.

The traffic has significantly reduced and the main road around the corner is never busy - no more lorries, hardly any cars, and better air quality.

TfL needs funding. If you don't agree with this then come up with some alternatives.

My partner works self employed in London, and would simply build this into his costs. It's no different to working somewhere that charges for parking.

It’s probably unfair of me but I dislike politicians who play to the gallery. I did vote for Sadiq and I feel irritated by him now

Then I'm surprised you didn't read the article sufficiently to see its a feasibility study about managing the funding gap this year.

It is largely replacing gaps created by being cash strapped by central government rules and a pandemic. It isn't funding gold plated taps for the city hall.

Londoners driving out of London are eclipsed by the massive volume of traffic entering it every morning.

@RedToothBrush
I don't get the problem. London has functing widespread public transport.
London does, sure. My village just outside the M25 doesn't. I have to start my journey by car, and even if I don't drive all the way and switch to this "functioning widespread public transport", it's too late, I've already incurred the charge.

I actually think it’s fair enough. London has an extensive public transport system. It’d be similar to other cities that have Park and Ride. Most people in London I know don’t have a car.

His finances were devastated long before COVID by his own doing.

He left the fares unchanged because so he would get re elected and his chickens have now come home to roost.

Then I'm surprised you didn't read the article sufficiently to see its a feasibility study about managing the funding gap this year.

Why don’t they wait for the road charging which seems likely and charge urban roads at a higher rate for that, then?

It all seems like pointless overlapping politicking.

I live in zone 2 near the Westway and the way the pollution dropped and the air cleared during the first lock down was amazing.

DD1 has a car which she bought for her work placements (vet). DH is borrowing it temporarily to get to work as he’s COVID vulnerable.

We got by with public transport and zip car (though expensive) before lockdown and will survive without it afterwards.

We already pay our borough for the privilege of parking on the street outside and DH has been stung several times by new road layouts and fines, put in to fleece the motorist, in our local area.

Frankly, most people in London can do without a car - a car is becoming a luxury for the rich, especially with the unaffordable electric cars coming in.

It's not political, this was an independent report from the following experts:

TC Chew, Global Rail Business leader at Arup, Chartered Engineer and a Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering;
Stephen Glaister CBE, Emeritus Professor of Transport and Infrastructure at Imperial College London, a member of the Board of TfL 2000 to 2008 and member of the 2019 Oakervee Review of HS2;
Bridget Rosewell CBE, Chair of Atom Bank and of the M6 Toll company and a Commissioner for the National Infrastructure Commission;
Sir Jonathan Taylor, Vice President of the European Investment Bank from 2013 until 2019.

It's a good idea to do some research before jumping to conclusions.

@RedToothBrush yes but there’s no decent park and ride to catch people to pick up TFL in zone 5/6. We live 2.5 hours from london, when we visit I would love to get the train from our home city but unless you get lucky with advance fare an off peak return and parking in home city Fri pm-Sunday pm is £200. Compare that to the £30 in fuel abs £30 to park at Westfield Shepherds Bush. Even adding the £15 congestion charge on isn’t a deterrent and actually our car is in the band which would be exempt anyway as it’s ultra low emissions. However I am aware of congestion - if we could get off the M40 and park easily for £10/15 per day at say Uxbridge to get on the TFL network i’d happily do it to relieve pressure on the roads.

I could never understand why tfl gave so many free concessions. They need to be brought into line with the rest of the country in that regard to increase profits. Most of the country have to run a car because there’s no public transport, any subsidies for public transport have gone and they’ve ceased operating. The elderly or others who can’t drive have to take taxis. I think tfl should receive some subsidies but London can’t always be insulated from what the rest of the country experiences.

@UserEleventyNine

He does realise that Londoners drive out of London to wear out non-London roads too, though, right? It’s literally two way traffic.

But Londoners drive out of London in all directions - Kent, Surrey, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Essex, and further afield. No one place gets all the wear and tear and congestion and pollution, it's dispersed over a wide area. But people from all those counties drive into London. And the number of vehicles entering London each day from outside is much greater than the number of London vehicles driving out of London each day. Commuting is pretty much one way traffic.

This is the weirdest logic I have seen anywhere about anything for years.

Think about it.......

[quote Hollyhead]@RedToothBrush yes but there’s no decent park and ride to catch people to pick up TFL in zone 5/6. We live 2.5 hours from london, when we visit I would love to get the train from our home city but unless you get lucky with advance fare an off peak return and parking in home city Fri pm-Sunday pm is £200. Compare that to the £30 in fuel abs £30 to park at Westfield Shepherds Bush. Even adding the £15 congestion charge on isn’t a deterrent and actually our car is in the band which would be exempt anyway as it’s ultra low emissions. However I am aware of congestion - if we could get off the M40 and park easily for £10/15 per day at say Uxbridge to get on the TFL network i’d happily do it to relieve pressure on the roads.[/quote]
Move to near Manchester and I'll give a fuck and stop laughing.

It costs me c£50 on a train to travel the 55 minutes to Waterloo. If I bring the children that goes up to near £100.

Or I can drive to Richmond, pay the congestion charge and the ULEZ charge and get the tube to town. Costs £40 for the charges plus parking. And a darned sight more comfortable and also faster.

So he could stop people driving in by working with the train companies to look at extortionate train ticket costs from the home counties.

Transport for london is in massive financial trouble. Was even before Covid.

Public transport in London and other transport costs have been heavily subsidised for years. But there at least is a good network.

Unlike many other areas of the country which are also considering similar schemes to met net emissions targets in a few years time.

I have not examined this extensively - but the amount Sadiq has paid to TFL managers - on the face of it sounds too much. He tried to reduce the amount of buses to reduce the TFL budget & some of them were to get people from further afield into where jobs are - some of those proposals have been shelved. I am old enough to remember Ken Livingstone's extention of the congestion charge zone - it hit local businesses very badly. Yes to drive in from the Home Counties for £3.50 - won't make a difference to behaviour probably and raises a bit of money.

To live in London & all of a sudden to have to pay £££ to get into your car - well - some people ( & we might ) change behaviour and do a car club or something - ( DS always uses buses or tubes ) but there are times when you use a car on occasion & seriously to nip round the corner or relatively near to pick someone up who cannot use public transport or to collect something - well. There you go. & yes tradespeople - we have no visitor's permits where we are - it's a pain in the arse - because people need their various tools etc. But have found handy man with a bicycle and panniers - but he could not transport a hot water tank . People in London do need various things done as well as everyone else. - ( and breathe )

It costs me c£50 on a train to travel the 55 minutes to Waterloo. If I bring the children that goes up to near £100

How old are your children? If they are up to 10 they can travel for free within travel zones. You just need to apply for the card.

I cannot wait to vote in the next mayoral elections for absolutely anyone but him

THIS.

Surely it's about pollution. Far more people drive into London daily than drive out if it.