To send DD to a school she doesn’t want

[rheafern]

DD has been quite unhappy with her current school. Main reasons are quality of teaching, endless dramas in her friendship group and harassment from boys. It’s not like she could no longer cope but we all felt like she could do with a better experience. DS goes to an amazing school (private, single sex) and we also felt she deserved a similar experience at least in her last two years of school. She’s very driven, but has some social insecurities (nothing that atypical). We weren’t keen on the single sex aspect but that’s the case in the closest school to us. She was offered a place at a single-sex Sixth Form but is now adamantly against accepting the offer. She visited the school, was really impressed with the level of support they receive and with the sports on offer. She also found the girl showing them the school very friendly. This girl told her that they get on well with the boys at a school nearby. But we saw some of the girls who will be in her year and she thinks that they fit a stereotype she knows well, that she won’t get along with them etc. We think she’s feeling extremely insecure. I said she was being prejudiced, that about 8 girls don’t represent the whole year, that she can’t discount people mainly based on their hair colouring choices and jeans... DH thinks we should decide for her and I tend to prefer to let her decide. I also broke her trust by initially telling her that she would decide (90%) and then saying we would as her arguments against it weren’t reasonable. Any similar experiences here, positive or negative? Should we make her go to this school against her feelings?

@Lottieeshborn, not at all! All very interesting, thanks very much for commenting and good luck with your DS!

I had an almost identical experience to Grenlei - moving from state mixed to private all girls. A lot of the girls there had been together since they were 4 - complex politics and longstanding rivalries and friendships. Very much shifting sands.

I did make a handful of long lasting friendships however. But it was hard work breaking in to such an established environment.

How many students in the new 6th form? And how many will stay on in her current school? Things may change particularly as they get older and are broken in to smaller tutor groups for A levels.

She should absolutely choose her own sixth form. DSS chose his and chose to go to a really good one, an hour bus ride away. We told him he could do this, but he couldn't be phoning us for lifts if he finished an hour early like he used to at school if a club was cancelled. He agreed. He has phoned asking for lifts a few times but we just point out that by the time we got there he would only have to wait 20 mins for the bus anyway!

@AintPageantMaterial

If you send her to a school that she is clear she doesn’t want to go to then, every time things get difficult (as they inevitably do at school), it will be your fault. At 16, you need sufficient enthusiasm and commitment from her towards anything new or it just won’t work.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

It needs to be her choice rather than you forcing yours onto her.

If you force your choice, she goes to the school or college you favour and it all goes tits up, then what? She will resent you. That's what. Surely you don't want that.

My three DDs made their own choices with regard to sixth form or other further education. Each of them did make the best decisions for them. Only DD2 needed some prodding from us as she just wanted to drop below the radar at 16 but the options really are to get work/apprenticeship or return to education in some form.

DD1 and DD3 both chose a girls' grammar school (the same one) and for DD3 that did involve a change of school for sixth form. It was a great choice, not driven by us at all really. DD1 went on to Warwick University and came away with a First. DD3 got into Cambridge this year and is thriving there. Really loving it so far. Both loved their sixth form experience and the teaching was excellent.

Your DD sounds in some ways like my DD1 and DD3 were in that she quite self-motivated. Let her make her choice. By all means point out pros and cons, but also consider ways in which she will be able to make it work (tutoring, if that is an option) or online study etc.).

It is your DD who will be spending the next two years of her life in this environment. That is a big chunk of time to commit to going somewhere where she doesn't believe she can be happy, whatever her reasons for it. Don't dismiss them.

There is a reason why it is the student who applies for the sixth form these days. It is their choice even though parents may have to sign some things off (really only a rubber stamping exercise).

I wish it had been a choice open to me back in 1982 when I was about to go into sixth form. Back then you didn't apply anyway. You just went back to your current school sixth form if you were not leaving school at 16, so sixth forms were a lot smaller than they are now.

I would apologise for trying to force her into it. Be really really honest. Tell her you feel a bit guilty about not offering her the option earlier to go private and that’s motivating you to want to persuade her but that you realise it is her decision and will support her whatever she decides.

I didn't regret the school I went to at all - academically it was a really good fit for me. However if it had been my parent's decision rather than mine, I might have had more mixed feelings. I had to leave my old school at 16 because it didn't offer French A level, so staying where I was wasn't really an option. It is hard to break into existing groups though - if there are other new starters in 6th form (at the 6th form DS attended, about 20-25% were from other schools) that definitely helps.

I'd also say although there can be good reasons to trust your gut feelings, then again you shouldn't always judge a book by it's cover. The girls I was in 6th form with were very different to those at my old school, a fair bit wealthier, much more 'polished'. Far more interested in make up, fashion etc and that showed in how they looked and dressed. However I honestly don't remember any bitchiness or Mean Girl type behaviour. I experienced a lot more of that at university!

You seem to be ruling out all other state schools? Just because she isn't happy in her current state school doesn't mean she would be unhappy in every state school
You presumably live in the London suburbs somewhere if she is at grammar school? So there must be a wide variety of schools accessible on public transport?

What about 6th form colleges? Richmond if you are south or west, Woodhouse in Barnet if you are north?
No idea about south east London but there will be something

They will have a different vibe from a school sixth form, more grown up perhaps? and it's a big pond to swim in so many more students to find your group - plus everyone is new so starting out there.

I think that as a 16 year old if she doesn't want to go you can't make her. At 6th form she absolutely needs to hit the ground running and if she's not going to go happily then you really need to respect that.

It also seems you're fixated on her going to a private school because you feel that you've let her down by not sending her there. Firstly, the politics etc in a state grammar is not going to be any different in a private girls school and I would argue that it might be worse with girls who may have been together for so many years and have a history together. b) at 6th form I don't think that there's a huge difference between a really good state school and a good private school.

you have not let her down by sending her to a state school, 6th form is not where they get the most benefit of private education. If you desperately want her to go private then compromise on the co-ed one otherwise let her look at other state 6th forms there are some other amazing ones in london. At 16 she absolutely has to feel that she's in a place she wants to be in order to be able to concentrate on her A levels

I agree with @Atrixie. My state 6th form consistently had better results than the two private ones nearby.

I would perhaps use the funds to ensure she can go to the school she wants and any barriers are reduced and to support her over the next two years

@negomi90, that is precisely that spiral we fear... resentment, self-sabotage, low self-confidence. But she could also conquer those fears and have a very positive lesson in life.

@Atrixie, do you think the benefits of a good private education at Sixth Form are small? I do fear it might be too little to late at a big cost financially and emotionally for her.

@Topseyt, yes, I can't dismiss her feelings as they will guide how she will deal with the school, so not something we can hope to set aside. We heard someone from her school accepted a place in the same school, so we will see if that makes a difference. Lovely girl. Could become a good friend. Thanks for the advice!

@Notonthestairs, I think the new school has about 60 girls and admits from 10 to 20 at Sixth Form. Not sure if really 60... Her current school is bigger and I think takes about 40 to 50 new students. So, yes, there will be significant movement.

@GreyishDays, love the idea! But no more time...

My mum didn't even express an opinion on my sixth form, or if she did I didn't take any notice. It's her choice where she goes. At what point are you going to start letting her make her own decisions otherwise?

60 students in sixth form, with most being existing pupils, is very small. Class sizes might be too small in fact. She'll spend her time trying to break into existing friendships with long standing shared history. And she doesn't want to go.

Current sixth form is a known entity. She wants to go there. Kids also change at sixth form, even in the same school. The whole mean-girl thing tends to become something immature year 10 and 11s do, not grown up sixth formers (!) - that's what they think anyway.

So leave her where she is!

I'm not really in a position to comment on the ins and outs of each choice. But friendship and the chance of is really important.

On reflection, I made the wrong decision on sixth form. It was a really good performing school and I knew people that had gone, (but had left by the time I started). I was a bit blinded by all that and I wish someone had explained the reality, that I wasn't particularly confident socially, and the people I knew weren't going to be there with me. That the sixth form was full of people that had, quite literally known each other from small village nurserys and there was so few 'outsiders' coming in from other schools. I made some friends but I struggled, and combined with the 'cockiness' of GCSE success, I really really hated sixth form, particularly second year where I realised how behind I was. A key moment I remember is about to starting statistics in maths. Teacher asked if everyone had done stats GCSE - all bar 2 of us had as the rest of the class had moved up through the school. Teacher went 'great, so we can skip all this!' and I sat confused over everything.

I started skipping classes, leaving at free periods and lying about having a class after lunch so my Dad would pick me up. I didn't want to sit alone at lunch, or in my frees.

I think whatever you both decide, it needs to be a place where she can make friends and get that support from her peers in her learning. On reflection, I probably would have done better at my local college, even if at the time i felt it was less good from an academic perspective.

If she doesn't feel she can make friends at your preference, that will reflect in how she acts when she's there, and be self fulfilling.

If she can pick a school she feels confident at, then that will colour how she performs there. Be there to temper and point out the things she hasn't considered, and encourage a proper reflection on it.

I think they way you are describing your dd: sending her to an all girls school is going to make life even worse for her.

Id keep her in the same school but opt for some help from a psychologist re social anxiety etc. And someone who can help build her self esteem and teach her not to judge peoples character based on their jeans.

In the end you are the parent so the final decision is yours HOWEVer if you do send her to the school she doesnt want to go. .. she might end up resenting you for it. And worse. So probably not the best idea.

Based on what you have said, I would decide for her. She sounds intimidated by it and her reasons for disliking it (seeing only a few girls) aren’t reasonable. However, she may be right to worry that she wouldn’t fit in. Grammar or not, she’s been at state school for years, and private school teenagers aren’t always kind about that (and vice versa). Many of them will be there because they failed the grammar test and they might resent that she passed it. The schoolwork may be too easy for her after the hothouse of a grammar, which would also make it harder to fit in. You need to be very very confident based on speaking to other parents etc that she wouldn’t be picked on or isolated there.

Are you confident that she would fit in there in terms of her background/accent etc? Does she know anyone going or would she be literally starting from scratch in a group who have mostly known each other since age 12? Does she have a best friend she would otherwise get to stay with? Etc.

@Skysblue, thanks for the advice. She knows one girl from her current school who is going to this new one. Not close friends but they seemed to get on really well. I think she would fit in given a bit of time. She can be reserved but not excessively so. DH and I are foreigners and we don’t speak English at home with the children. We’ve got two different languages at home and they learned English outside. So they do have a slight foreign accent despite being fluent in English. We hope that won’t be a problem as their accents reflect who they are and I’m glad they are proud of their complex identity. DD just had a long chat with out neighbours’ daughter who attended this school a few years ago (then Engineering at Oxford) and the conversation was quite reassuring. She wasn’t sugar coating the problems but was very confident there’s a very diverse group that ends us welcoming different types. DD is still saying that she would prefer not to go to the new school but has accepted our decision. Yes, after a very long conversation with her, we decided that she should go to the school of our choice. I asked whether she would embrace the new school or close herself up etc. She replied that of course she would do her best, and how could I think “she could be that stupid to compromise her future out of spite”. We think she will have the right attitude and that will make a big difference. Thank you all for the advice although we ended up doing the opposite of what most of you suggested.