To send DD to a school she doesn’t want

[rheafern]

DD has been quite unhappy with her current school. Main reasons are quality of teaching, endless dramas in her friendship group and harassment from boys. It’s not like she could no longer cope but we all felt like she could do with a better experience. DS goes to an amazing school (private, single sex) and we also felt she deserved a similar experience at least in her last two years of school. She’s very driven, but has some social insecurities (nothing that atypical). We weren’t keen on the single sex aspect but that’s the case in the closest school to us. She was offered a place at a single-sex Sixth Form but is now adamantly against accepting the offer. She visited the school, was really impressed with the level of support they receive and with the sports on offer. She also found the girl showing them the school very friendly. This girl told her that they get on well with the boys at a school nearby. But we saw some of the girls who will be in her year and she thinks that they fit a stereotype she knows well, that she won’t get along with them etc. We think she’s feeling extremely insecure. I said she was being prejudiced, that about 8 girls don’t represent the whole year, that she can’t discount people mainly based on their hair colouring choices and jeans... DH thinks we should decide for her and I tend to prefer to let her decide. I also broke her trust by initially telling her that she would decide (90%) and then saying we would as her arguments against it weren’t reasonable. Any similar experiences here, positive or negative? Should we make her go to this school against her feelings?

She is old enough to marry. She should be the one who decides where she goes to school.

Watching this thread with interest as I am in a similar position.

She's 16. I have a daughter of the same age, and she is more than capable of making sensible decisions. I think you should respect her views, especially as you originally promised that you would let her choose.

Talk to her about your concerns, by all means, and try to help her see why it wouldn't be a good thing to base her choice on the basis of her insecurities, but let her know that, ultimately, she is in control of the situation. Your dh needs to back off a bit and recognise that she isn't a baby any more.

@bluebluezoo, it's not the closest to us, sorry. We have some good state schools that are much closer. And we tried two private schools. She was offered a place at both. But one is a bit further away (50 mins). So closer compared to the want we prefer (35 minutes away). Just for background, one of her A-Level subjects is Latin, not offered in many schools.

Just for background, one of her A-Level subjects is Latin, not offered in many schools

If she’s self motivated, are there independent means like online learning for Latin? It may give her more choice and after the last year many schools and colleges have online learning set up.

In my day also it wasn’t unusual for sixth formers to attend two colleges if the subject demanded and the timetable worked, they’d do maths and physics at college x, and nip over to college y for music or greek.

Totally let her decide. She needs to be able to feel comfortable to learn. If she arrives with negative feelings, that could very well stick and affect her schooling. Or at the very least affect her settling in

Eta: quick google tells me Cambridge uni classics dept do a level latin, either tutored independent learning, or video classes.

@Aprilx it’s pretty common for one child to go to grammar if they get in but siblings that don’t go private. They’d usually be regarded fairly equally

Not remotely equally, unless you're someone using it to justify the different expenditure, and if you believe the private education is better, then it penalises the more able or more diligent student over the less able or more feckless one.

Because you cannot know if one school is actually right or wrong until you go there, at 16, she has to own that decision with help from the parents, being forced into something she doesn't want creates the resentment against the parent if it goes wrong, which will make resolving the issues so much harder.

@greenlynx, we will do that later today. There was too much emotion last night. We will ask her to write down pros and cons and also think about her reasons (even if unreasonable!). And, yes, tutoring to compensate could be an option. And we could also hope for some new friends (she has 4 that are very close), the problem is in the wider groups, especially with the boys. Thank you and everyone else for the comments!

At 16 you think you know it all but, as you can see with your daughter's decision based on hair, you make ridiculous decisions on the here and now, rather than looking to ultimate goals.

Totally agree. All these super mature Mumsnet 16 year olds making important decisions, with no input from their hands-off parents, as they're adults now. Most 16 year olds are not nearly mature enough to make those decisions at all, they think they know it all but they haven't a clue. I certainly thought I knew it all when I was 16. It's only with hindsight you look back and realise you knew nothing and made decisions for all the wrong reasons.

It's a tricky one OP. What would be the second or third option if this school isn't an option? It's a different conversation if there are several very good options, and this single-sex one is just a little bit better than the rest. But if the other options are dire, then going there might be a big mistake.

She decides.

@bluebluezoo, thanks for the good advice on the online Cambridge offer for Latin. I'll have a look. DD is already doing a foreign language outside school, so this might be a bit much. She's done her GCSE in this language and will continue for A-Level. This requires her to attend a Saturday school. She's independent, self-motivated, but maybe not that much! But we will mention it to her and consider. thanks!

Can you try and see some more girls? Sit outside and spy on them coming out?

With her, I mean.

thanks for the good advice on the online Cambridge offer for Latin. I'll have a look. DD is already doing a foreign language outside school, so this might be a bit much. She's done her GCSE in this language and will continue for A-Level. This requires her to attend a Saturday school. She's independent, self-motivated, but maybe not that much! But we will mention it to her and consider. thanks!

If she does online Latin, presumably that means she will only do one or two A-levels at college? So she could slope off to the library or an empty classroom in her free periods and get her Latin done then? All she’d need is a laptop and headphones.

I think at 6th form stage the final choice has to be with the child. If you think she's making a decision for the wrong reason, by all means encourage her to make a list of pros and cons, it's important she doesn't make a snap judgment especially if she's not happy with her current school BUT equally her views and feelings are really important and if she feels this new school isn't for her she may be right.

I attended a mixed comp to 16 and then a single sex school for 6th form. My choice was made mainly on an academic basis (my school to 16 was appalling, I attended because it was the local school and in our area you just went to your nearest school usually, but I ended up teaching myself several subjects. It was a rough school generally and there was a lot of bullying which nowadays would be classed as sexual assault); I wanted to go to university and there were 3 schools in the borough which offered the best chance of this - one was all girls, one was all boys with a mixed 6th form, and one was mixed. The all girls one involved a shorter journey on public transport (an hour rather than 1-1.5 hours) so I chose that one. I have never regretted it as the standard of teaching was much better and I got into Cambridge which was my ultimate aim.

There definitely is a different dynamic in single sex schools though. Also changing schools at 6th form can be hard; there were only 2 of us who joined that school at 6th form (and the other girl left after a term as A levels weren't for her) so you do feel a bit of an outsider. I found the girls in my 6th form were friendly, but most conversations were about boys, who was dating who etc, much more so than at my mixed school. I never stayed in touch with any of the girls I met there, none lived near me and we never really established firm friendships.

That said my eldest DC changed school for 6th form - from one mixed school to another and made some really great friends there. However he is much more affable and socially skilled than I was as a teenager which is probably why!

@RaspberryCoulis

My parents also thought 16 wasn't old enough to make my own decisions and that they knew better. They were 100% of the time ALWAYS wrong, and I suffered because of their choices, which included forcing me to go to the college they wanted, where I didn't make any friends, doing the subjects they wanted etc.

@RaspberryCoulis, these are our options so far: 1. Staying put in her Grammar school, hoping for changes at Sixth Form; 2. choosing another private school she was offered a place at. Mixed, bigger, more expensive and slightly less academic than the one we prefer, but also very good. A bit too "billionaire's-row" for us though. DH not keen. 3. Applying for state schools with good Sixth Forms, but not offering her any better than what she's getting now. And 4. convincing her or making her go the one we like.

@sirfredfredgeorge

We think her decision is based on her social anxieties and feel it wouldn’t be good for her to let those insecurities drive her choice

Perhaps being told it's worth spending 10s of thousands of pounds on your sons education, but nothing on hers has, despite the fact your son is less able has driven some social anxiety?

Her choice where she goes at 16, certainly not yours.

Silly response. I went to state Grammar, DS to private because she failed 11 plus. I got by far the better deal. Money does not equal love, and to suggest it does says more about you than OP.

@Grenlei, thanks for sharing your experience. So many similarities with what my daughter is facing now in her current school. Interesting to know you don't regret choosing this school despite not making good friends or any lasting friends.

If you send her to a school that she is clear she doesn’t want to go to then, every time things get difficult (as they inevitably do at school), it will be your fault.
At 16, you need sufficient enthusiasm and commitment from her towards anything new or it just won’t work.

I'm sorry but I'm completely with your daughter on this.
I didn't go to a private high school, but it was a very posh one pretty far away from our home town. It was my mums choice, not mine. Now the school was okay, but I didn't enjoy it the way my mum thought I would.
Then when it came to 6th form/college, it was my choice entirely. My mum let me apply to the places I wanted to go myself, and then decided which one myself. I thought that was amazing and it taught me a lot about making my own decisions. This was a long time ago as I'm now 31.
But there was a private all girls school/6th form in the town next to me. We had a look and I absolutely hated it! I could tell I wouldn't get on with any of the girls there as we were so very very different!
There was an all boys school/college close and they also all met up etc. But honestly, I would have hated it. The girls all definitely fitted the stereotype as daddy's little girl and all had a lot of money. I came from a far more humble background with a single mum etc. Honestly whenever I see girls for that school still, they all look the same, talk the same, act the same and I was very much a tomboy growing up. If my mum had made me go there, honestly I don't think we would have had the relationship we do now. She taught me how to make my own decisions regardless of how I chose them and what influenced me, and then if I chose and hated it, I had to live with the consequences as it was my choice!
Honestly at this age, its the time she makes her own choices in life. If she's around 16, she is old enough to apply for jobs, etc, so she needs to learn to make big decisions like this. Plus like I said, I understand her reasoning for not wanting to go to that school as I was the same. And now being older I can say a lot of the time, that stereotype is quite true.
And before people get mad, obviously there are always exceptions to the rule. I'm just saying from my experience from the school near me xx

P.s sorry that was so long 🙈 I seem to babble a lot more now I have a 12 month old DS and am exhausted haha x

@bluebluezoo, no, she will do 4 in school in the first year plus the foreign language outside school. In the second year, she will decide if she wants to drop from 4 to 3 in school (which I think she will do once she's clearer about career choice), but keeping the one outside school.

If you force her, and she's miserable she'll blame you and feel she has no agency and will enter an even worse self confidence spiral.
At 16 she's also capable of self sabotage (even subconcsiously) and hating it on principle.
Let her pick where she wants to go, give her the agency and support to stand by her own decisions. If she struggles in the place where she wants to be, it will still be better for her, because she will own the decision and it won't be mixed up with resentment at her parents.

You could force her, but long term it will cause more problems then you can gain.