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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I know this is a bit morbid

173 replies

fancyginglass · 08/12/2020 18:33

But do you really think they should have given so much publicity to the first elderly people getting the vaccine? Given their age, what if something happened to them in the next few weeks? This would seriously dent the update of the vaccine and the anti-vaxers would have a field day. Obviously I wish them all well.

OP posts:

oakleaffy · 08/12/2020 22:39

Agree and DS also said “
But at that age they could die within the next few weeks anyway( Nothing To do with vaccine.

Tenyearsgone · 08/12/2020 22:42

If there was a 110 year old that had three months left I would still believe they should be prioritised for the vaccine, if it means they could spend their last days with their family next to them and have that touch that the elderly have been missing for a year already.

Exactly this. But the heartless bastards on here would be happy for any one over 80 to die alone.

oakleaffy · 08/12/2020 22:43

I lost my dear mum when she was just 41.
People in their nineties have had a bloody good long life by that stage.

It’s the young ones who die that upset me.

viques · 08/12/2020 22:48

@HollyBollyBooBoo

I'm lost as to why we want to immunise a 90 year old rather than an NHS worker.

They discussed this on More or Less the other day, actually, not more or Less but a Covid Special.

Ideally they would be vaccinating care home residents because although they are less than two percent of the population they are 30% of the 60,000 death rate. Unfortunately, because this vaccine has to be delivered in a special way they haven’t worked out how to get it into care homes.

Great choice of first choice Vaccine there Matt H, another triumph.

The next level down is the over 80s, which again, although a tiny proportion of the population also account for about a third of the total deaths.

So a minuscule cohort of the population have accounted for over
Two thirds of Covid confirmed deaths. I’m not surprised they are being targeted as first in line for the vaccine.

UserEleventyNine · 08/12/2020 23:04

Great choice of first choice Vaccine there Matt H, another triumph.

Really? Are you aware of some other vaccine that's currently available that he could have chosen instead? I'm sure everyone would like to know about it if you do.

LemonadeFromLemons · 08/12/2020 23:24

To all those who have suggested older people’s lives shouldn’t matter less. Have you never heard of the Trolley problem and similar ethics debates?

Decisions are made everyday all over the world where one group of people are prioritised over another because a resource is limited. (With political parties often in the favour of the demographics of their voting base...)

LemonadeFromLemons · 08/12/2020 23:28

@Tenyearsgone

Okay but if you give that vial of vaccine to the eighty year old, the forty year old with three young catches Covid. She suffers long covid and is no longer able to work and support her family...

Tenyearsgone · 08/12/2020 23:30

The 80 year old is just as entitled to the vaccine as the 40 year old.

LemonadeFromLemons · 08/12/2020 23:35

@Tenyearsgone

So how do we decide who gets it?

FoxyTheFox · 08/12/2020 23:47

We go in order of risk.

Tinkerbell456 · 08/12/2020 23:52

Firstly, admittedly I haven’t read the whole thread and this may already have been said. Yes, the folk chosen were elderly. It’s worth bearing in mind that being elderly does not always equate to being fragile in health. I would think that the elderly vaccine recipients were thoroughly medically assessed before being vaccinated to make as sure as possible that they are in good health. Of course, things can happen quickly in the elderly. I think that there is also an element of experimenting here, and I would imagine that the recipients know that. Sounds awful I know but being pragmatic about it, it makes sense.

FoxyTheFox · 08/12/2020 23:54

There is no element of experimenting, this isn't some science project either the elderly as guinea pigs. They're among the first groups to be vaccinated as they are among the most vulnerable and the most likely to be hospitalised and/or die.

Defenbaker · 09/12/2020 00:09

No easy answers, and the special storage requirements mean that transport and distribution is very tricky for this first vaccine, so that limits the places where jabs can be given. That is why care homes are not in the first tranche, and also why vaccines are mainly being used for those elderly people who are already inpatients or who are due to attend out patient appts. There is no point in making thousands of frail elderly people attend appts just for the jab, if others are already on site in the hospital. Any spare jabs from the first batch will be offered to NHS staff and carers, because once the boxes are split down this vaccine only remains viable for a few days at fridge temperature. Hospital teams are vaccinating people from 7am to 9pm, 7 days a week. This has been planned quite well, I think.

I'm hopeful that steady progress will be made, and my elderly MIL is keen to get her jab. She has struggled with being isolated for months on end, and visiting her inside her home feels a bit risky, even with SD and masks (we are in a bubble with her, and I barely see anyone these days, but even so there is anxiety).

lyralalala · 09/12/2020 00:54

[quote LemonadeFromLemons]@Tenyearsgone

So how do we decide who gets it?[/quote]
By giving it to those most likely to die and those most likely to pass it to those most likely to die first in accordance with logistics making it possible.

AlternativePerspective · 09/12/2020 05:57

Great choice of first choice Vaccine there Matt H, another triumph. because there were so many choices weren’t there? Let’s see.... this one, and then ... oh wait, there aren’t any others.

And I’m sure that if they had said “well, there is a vaccine which is 90% effective but because we can’t give it to care homes recipients first we’re not going to bother with it,” you would nod your head and say “yes, that’s what should happen, the front line workers and other elderly and then the rest of us should go without until a vaccine can be found which can go into the care homes first. So just wash your hands now, maintain that social distancing, and remember, you’re in tier3 so no mixing with other people until the care homes have been vaccinated...”

Nope, didn’t think so.

AlternativePerspective · 09/12/2020 06:02

Okay but if you give that vial of vaccine to the eighty year old, the forty year old with three young catches Covid. She suffers long covid and is no longer able to work and support her family...

If you give that vile of vaccine to the 40 year old, the 80 year old catches COVID and passes it to two of her friends who in turn pass it to two of their friends, and so on, all of whom are elderly. Those people end up seriously ill in hospital, and some end up on ventilators, all of them take up hospital beds.

So when the 40 year old and her family are in a car accident and seriously injured, there are no hospital beds to treat them because they have been taken up by COVID patients, all of whom wouldn’t have been there if they’d had the vaccine.

The 40 year old then ends up with life-changing injuries which mean they are unable to support their family.

And bearing in mind, the car crash with life changing injuries is by far more likely than the COVID with long COVID.

Ylvamoon · 09/12/2020 07:11

I do have a strong opinion, but my post would get deleted ...
But it would conclude that we should give the vaccine to care home staff and hospital staff as well as people in the over 60 (maybe 65) age bracket.

In my opinion these groups will gain the most from the vaccine...

bettbattenburg · 09/12/2020 07:52

Yes, it is. My grandparents and parents were both very open about death, as I am with my D.C.

I was very open with the fact that my Dad was dying during his last 24 hours. Getting the email to say he had died on his birthday was fucking hard. Not being able to go to his funeral was fucking hard. Not being able to personally scatter his ashes was fucking hard. I'm so sorry if I didn't prepare for it according to your fucking smug standards. Good for you that you are so fucking good at it.

I'm having a bad day. I guess you can tell.

AlternativePerspective · 09/12/2020 08:07

In my opinion these groups will gain the most from the vaccine... are people just thick or do they genuinely not grasp that vaccination isn’t just about the people being vaccinated, but it is about the bigger picture.

Maybe those who feel that the elderly should be lost in the stampede for them to get their vaccine should in fact be last in the queue.

XingMing · 09/12/2020 20:58

My DMIL is 91, and has memory issues, as in limited short term memory. She needs to be reminded frequently. But she is still quick and clever, and regularly wins the quiz for her care home. We and she would like to relocate, but how does one ask, politely, do you discriminate for intelligence in your residents, because DMIL really doesn't want to live with aged field hands whose education stopped at 14. If anyone can help me frame the right question, I would be grateful. I can't find a way to ask the questions that doesn't sound snobbish, but I want to find a care home for her, close by, that is filled with MC professionals, because she will not settle among people who are not.. YES, I do understand that it's not the done thing to say, but I want her to be happy in her final few years.

Tulipshoots · 09/12/2020 21:07

@Tomorrowisanotherdayyouknow

The way people talk about older people on here is just sad really.

There was a thread the other die that suggested it was worse to lose a cat than a person.

Strange where people attribute value in our society.

I wouldn’t judge anyone on who/what is important to them. That’s a bit shitty really.

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 09/12/2020 21:25

They vaccine schedule is based on practicalities

It makes sense to vaccinate the most vulnerable first so there shall be less of them admitted to hospital with covid and then those that are most at risk from catching covid but need to be at work

Gwenhwyfar · 10/12/2020 16:29

"Really? Are you aware of some other vaccine that's currently available that he could have chosen instead? I'm sure everyone would like to know about it if you do."

I thought there were 3 vaccines ready.

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